Pandora and the woes: So tough!

[Werecat]

So, my main opponent plays pandora. We're still just doing the boxes, but I got brutalized. And that was BEFORE he really figured out how they really work, so it should be even worse! I'm playing the McMourning box set, and I'm really struggling. Does anyone have any sort of tips or strategies on how to best handle them?

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

Sure.

Get rid of the chaff (Woes), then go after the wheat (Pandora, Kade, Candy).

Edited September 28, 2009 by WEiRD sKeTCH

[goblyn13]

Try to deprive the big hitters (Pandora, Kade, Candy) of the Sorrows and they'll no longer be able to slough the damage off to them. Keep them away from base to base and be sure to try to take out the sorrows or keep them at least 4" away from your people if possible as you run into the problem that the Sorrows when clumped around you can lead to a serious beating when they are each plinking your models with 1 WD each for failed willpower duels.

[Peterdita]

Agreed. Target the sorrows, they have lowerd df stats generally. Once those are knocked out, go for the main characters. Much easier cracking through the sorrows df than the candies for example, and they are taking the wounds anyway so start there.

Try to avoid WP duels as well if you can. Pandora tends to make you regret those. And stay away from Kade. Once he gets a Teddy you are looking at more trouble, but for now, just try and slow him down and keep him at bay. If your opponent is holding a red joker with Kade, you are pretty F'ed if he gets close.

Good luck!

[Khail]

Ranged attacks. Pick up a Convict Gunslinger and go to town. Killing off Sorrows from a distance is your best bet... McMourning isn't really suited to this with the current model selection, but you can always go for dog bombs if you're up for proxying.

Seamus should handle Pandora fairly well if you're up for a different Master - pull apart his army with Lure, kill the Sorrows, then worry about the rest. Seamus' gun by itself kills a Sorrow on weak damage.

[nilus]

Also with Nicodem you can always target the woes with decay and get the blast off. Hopefully you'll get a few free hits on Pandora that way.

[Zee]

And make some Mindless Zombies out of it!

[Werecat]

Nice, thanks guys! I think the lack of ranged is a big deal, and I'll be throwing in the gunslinger as soon as he gets in this week.

And khail, what do you mean by Dog bombs? Are you talking about digs with the nurses? I do have some models that I'm using as a proxy for dogs, so I'll give that a try too. My biggest problem is that right now, the nurses really don't have anything to do with themselves, as there really aren't any targets for their massive doses. Dogs will help with that, methinks.

For the moment, I'm sticking with McMourning, as I want to get to know each master REALLY well before I move on to another. Plus, If I can beat her with McMourning, then it'll be much easier to beat her with Nicodem and Seamus, both of which I think have a bit better tools against her. But, I will be throwing in a belle or two with Mcmourning, so that should make things easier.

Edited September 28, 2009 by Werecat

[gregdorf]

I really think punk zombies and Sebastian will be your best bet with dealing with Pandora. Just use the pulse attacks and you will be able to force the Pandora player to spread out, which is bad for her. Or they will have to risk the chance of getting several woes blasted by things that do not target models.

[Angus Khan]

My biggest problem is that right now, the nurses really don't have anything to do with themselves, as there really aren't any targets for their massive doses.

That's one of your problems... two nurses with only one flesh construct doesn't allow for the nurses to be very productive (them being support units and all)... Try removing one and adding in some canine remains, punk zombies, or belles instead, and I think you will find McMourning will become a much more dangerous opponent.

[Isoulle]

I'd drop most the box set and run Sebastian/Belles/Punk Zombies and potentially Bette Noire.

Dogs, Nurses, and Flesh constructs are good but you can summon 2 of them and nurses are only good in larger games. You want to focus on aggro (Punk Zombie/Sebastian) and harpoon tech to move your enemy into threat range (Belles). Summon the flesh construct only once your close to blitz your opponent in one turn. Mcmourning with lure support has a lot of threat and you can do serious damage with him if you combine him with a flesh construct. Though you gotta plan it right. He's got 3 good (0) actions and you gotta choose wisely when to use them, especially since scalpel slinging is essential to his combat style.

[Werecat]

That's one of your problems... two nurses with only one flesh construct doesn't allow for the nurses to be very productive (them being support units and all)... Try removing one and adding in some canine remains, punk zombies, or belles instead, and I think you will find McMourning will become a much more dangerous opponent.

Yeah, that's for freaking sure. It was both of our first games, so we just decided to do the boxes. Little did we realize that his box was very well balanced, and mine was not I have canine remain proxies that I'll slide in for our game on wednesday. Then all my punk zombies and stuff should be getting here by the weekend, so then I can REALLY start playing. The gloves are off now!

Thanks again guys for all the help. I love being a part of this tight online community before it gets massive. It'll be fun to be one of the "old guys", ha ha.

[Shade]

Totally agree with the other guys on the getting rid of the Woes first. Do you best to keep 'em separated!

Hey - give us an update after you get some ranged firepower on the board.

And FTR - Kade is a Monster!

~Shade~

[ork56]

yeah that lil dude moves fast on his chubby legs.

played my first last night and Kade tried to drag a punk over to beat him up. needless to say one flurry later and Kade was dead.

granted having Nico give the punk +2cb and +2 df helped a lot.

[Sushicaddy]

another option might be to Focus. I don't know for sure, but I think that focus might give you a :mali+fate on the WP duel

Also, Misakl has a great chance of beating Pandora in a duel with her "foresight" ability.

[nilus]

another option might be to Focus. I don't know for sure, but I think that focus might give you a :mali+fate on the WP duel

Sadly this wont work. You can focus to hit something but the WP test to shoot Pandora isn't an attack flip, its a flip before the attack flip.

Samurai Zombies pulse is a good choice though, I hadn't thought of that before.

[Khail]

And khail, what do you mean by Dog bombs? Are you talking about digs with the nurses?

Yes, exactly. The Nurses work best with cheap disposable combat troops - Canine Remains and Necropunks are exactly that.

The McMourning box set is a great core for over 35 Soulstone games, but for a 25 SS game, it's a really awkward combination of models.

I haven't tried Nicodem yet, but the Seamus box set is one of those "holy crap, are you sure that's not broken?" experiences the first time you play them. Very different from the McMourning box, heh.

[Zee]

Going from McM to Seamus provided a huge difference, thanks to having some ranged abilities. McM has practically NADA, and Seamus has tons with his Lures/Distracts/Undresses. All that stuff works well, and I think the Belles are pretty much good work horses for all the masters.

[Werecat]

Awesome, you guys rock. I'll let you know how things go next week, after I get the ol' gunslinger on the table.

[Sushicaddy]

If you can proxy a Canine remains, you can try this trick

before the game turn one SS into a corpse counter -> 2 bod part counters

1st turn Mcmorning casts wracked with pain on the canine remains, gains one body part, then casts Dissection on the same canine remains for 3 bodypart counters (cheating a low card for the damage flip, you only need to do one wound to kill the dog, you don't want to do severe damage and end your turn), with the 6 bodypart counters you now have, summon a Flesh construct (you may have to spend a soulstone to do this)- a 7 SS creature for killing a 2 ss creature (spending 2 ss also though, but those are from his cache)!

it would be cheese, except that is what McM seems to be designed to do... he doesn't have the buffs/spells of awesomeness of nico, nor the damage/hard to wound of seamus. he can do alot of damage, but he needs to be in close, and with a def of 4... well... not even 12 wds are going to let him last long. a few extra flesh constructs SHOULD even him up though... MUAHAHAHA!

[Zee]

Actually, he turns 1 SS into 1 Body Part, meaning you have to spend 2 SS to get 2 Body parts at the start of the game.

[Breten]

I have the same issues with Pandora, but I un Perdita. Ranged isn't the only answer, because often enough, if you're close enough to shoot, he's close enough for Self-Loathing.

[Sushicaddy]

Actually, I forgot, when you kill the canine remains, it also creates a corpse token, which you can turn into two more bodyparts, so from one canine remains, you can generate 6 bp tokens, which is enough to make a flesh construct right there. just you will still probably need to spend a ss to get the spell off, but that's still a net gain of 4 ss. if you can spend the time to do that in the first two turns, you can turn 2 canine remains into flesh constructs and go to town. or you could keep the bodypart tokens and use them to fuel "passion for his work". 6 bp tokens are enough to make McM fast for the rest of the game.

[Werecat]

That is true. I hadn't thought of using disection on the actual dog. That's a REALLY awesome way to get those corpse tokens really fast. As long as you do careful positioning, you won't even have to use soul stones to get that first flesh construct.

[Sushicaddy]

And if you have sebastian, he can gather parts that first turn, and next turn give you a new dog to dissect! with the 6 bp from that dog, you will have 2 bp left over from creating two flesh constructs, which which sebastian can make ANOTHER dog the next turn, and you can repeat the whole process over again.

so McM + Sebastian could theoretically create 3 flesh constructs out of one dog... I don't know if that would ACTUALLY work due to the difficulty of getting off Monstrous creation, and it's half the game standing around making constructs... probably not the wisest thing to do in the grand scheme of things. But 21 ss off one 2 ss dog, that's money right there.