Thoughts on a Malifaux Roleplaying game

[nerdelemental]

5) Awesome background fiction about the strange mysteries of Malifaux and the complicated skein of back-alley deals that rule it.

Yeah, but do we have someone that could write "awesome background fiction"?!

:tongue1:

[redstripe]

Yeah, but do we have someone that could write "awesome background fiction"?!

:tongue1:

Nathan's pretty resourceful. I'm sure he can find somebody.

[weebaldy]

This is just me talking, but how would folks feel about an investigation type game where the players explore Malifaux or the Outlands and discover terrifying eldritch creatures, maddened megalomaniacs, or bizarre conspiracies?

Features would be:

1) A simple, quick combat system to get you back into the story.

2) Encourage storytellers to explore the strange mysteries of Malifaux and the complicated skein of back-alley deals that rule it.

C) Encourage players to work together.

4) Rules for fear, insanity, investigation, invention, and political maneuvering.

5) Awesome background fiction about the strange mysteries of Malifaux and the complicated skein of back-alley deals that rule it.

OHHH YES PLEASE :-))) sounds spot on

[weebaldy]

why would you want to play a minion?

No class, instead choose a preferred suit.

stats allocation should absolutely be points based, with other points going towards skills, Spells, abilities, and adding a suit to a skill or stat.

No need to choose a faction, though buying an allegiance to a faction with points would have a definite mechanical benefit.

I was kinda thinking that starting as a minion would allow for some sort of character progression to be included.

I LOVE the idea of choosing a suit instead of a class, I missed that totally :-0

Thanks for the the input.

[Sushicaddy]

This is just me talking, but how would folks feel about an investigation type game where the players explore Malifaux or the Outlands and discover terrifying eldritch creatures, maddened megalomaniacs, or bizarre conspiracies?

Features would be:

1) A simple, quick combat system to get you back into the story.

2) Encourage storytellers to explore the strange mysteries of Malifaux and the complicated skein of back-alley deals that rule it.

C) Encourage players to work together.

4) Rules for fear, insanity, investigation, invention, and political maneuvering.

5) Awesome background fiction about the strange mysteries of Malifaux and the complicated skein of back-alley deals that rule it.

I personally believe that the Wyrd system is a very elegant one that could easily support a simple, quick combat system. Now bear in mind that quick systems are necessarily brutal, but that can be avoided for PC's with the use of soulstones (which is why I think that PC's should be Masters, not Minions).

The best way to make a simple quick system with the card mechanic, IMO is to ditch wd values and wds done by weapons… hold on, don’t leave me now, come along for the ride.

A damage flip of 1-5 (weak damage) inflicts a moderate wound. The damage is severe enough for the character to take notice, a bone might be fractured, and it is generally extremely difficult to do anything, -2 to all values until healed. If the character suffers another moderate wound, this wound is upgraded to severe, rather than suffering two moderate wounds

A damage flip of 6-10 (moderate damage) inflicts a severe wound. The wounds are terrible and dangerous, blood pours from the wounds, and bones are typically fractures in several placed. If the character takes another severe wound, this wound is upgraded to mortal, rather than suffering two severe wounds

A damage flip of 11-15 (severe damage) inflicts a mortal wound. The character drops to the ground bleeding profusely either internally or externally, if left in this condition without medical help the character will die. Make a wp->10 duel to keep from dying on the character’s next turn or subsequent turns until the character is stabilized. If this character suffered another mortal wound, she is killed.

A damage flip of 16+ inflicts instant death. The character is instantly killed, her head or vital organs vanish in a red mist. If this character suffers another instant death wound, someone obviously does not understand what instant death means.

Weapons, instead of having a damage code (weak/mod/sev), add to the card number of the damage flip. So a weapon with a +2 damage would add 2 to the card number, and that modified number would determine the wound inflicted. Note that most weapons, except magical or otherwise powerful weapons like guns, would probably have a negative modifier to the damage flip. An easy conversion to what I am thinking is subtract 4 from the severe damage of a weapon in Malifaux, and that is it’s damage modifier in the RP system.

Likewise armor reduces the number of the damage flip, so an armor of 2 wound subtract 2 from the card flipped, and that modified number would determine the wound inflicted.

Hard to wound acts as normal

Hard to kill reduces a mortal or instant death wound by one step, automatically, so against this character 11-15 would inflict a serious wound, and 16+ would inflict a mortal wound. This does not stop two severe wounds becoming a mortal wound.

Slow to die comes into play after either a mortal wound or instant death.

DAMAGE EXAMPLE

Fry Pan Jack, a guild investigator is poking is nose in where it don’t belong, and stumble across a steamborg that he does not recognize from guild reports on the arcanist terrorists. It’s chassis is of a small train, with a curious method of laying it’s own tracks before it, but the humanoid body on the chassis carries a massive cleaver of rusted iron, as the steamborg fixes it’s baleful gaze on Fry Pan.

Fry Pan wins initiative, and attempts to put a bullet in the brain of that steamborg.

He wins the attack duel, and flips for damage, he flips a 10 : malirams

Now Fry Pan’s peacemaker is a deadly weapon, capable of dropping a Sabertusk at 50 yards, and has a damage bonus of +1, giving the total to be 11, a mortal wound.

But the steamborg is fitted with armored boilerplate and has an armor vale of 3, dropping the total to 8, a sever wound… not enough to drop it, and Fry Pan does NOT want to be on the receiving end of that cleaver

So Fry Pan cheats and puts down a 13 : malicrows bringing his total to 11, and puts his bullet right between the eyes of the monster, dropping it to the ground in a heap.

Now this system is indeed brutal, and makes combat very dangerous for player characters, which is again why I believe players should play soulstone users, so that they have a better chance of surviving to keep playing the game

Healing flips

A black joker heals no damage

A healing flip of 1-5 reduces the wound level by 1

A healing flip of 5-10 reduces the wound level by 2

A healing flip of 11 + reduces the wound level by 3

A red joker heals all damage

SOULSTONE USE EXAMPLE

Unfortunately for our man Fry Pan, the Steamborg has one last trick up it’s metal and flesh sleeve, he is Slow to die. He activates his Self destruct Spell, and makes the casting flip. Fry Pan fails to win the casting duel, and is hit by the blast wave of exploding steamborg that does an IMPRESSIVE and scary +4 Damage.

Fry pan is not wearing armor, nor is hard to wound, so he takes the full damage.

The steamborg gets lucky on the damage flip and pulls a 12 :malitomes and it looks like our man Fry Pan is going to that big Rock Candy mountain (this flip+4 will inflict instant death on Fry Pan (16)), but he is a soulstone user, and opts to use his soulstone to absorb some of the damage.

He makes a healing flip, and flips a 7 :malitomes This reduces the damage from instant death to a sever wound. Fry Pan is not doing at all well, but he is alive, and can inform his guild compatriots of the Arcanist strength in this area.

This is all off the top of my head, and would necessarily change in development, but it serves as an example of how the current system could EASILY perform the “simple quick combat system” that Redstripe prefers while staying consistent with the awesome system of malifaux.

Sorry for the long post…. I’m a rules monkey (even though I like role playing better than rollplaying [flipplaying]). I’ll shut up now…

Edited September 28, 2009 by Sushicaddy

[capcap]

RPG for Malifaux sounds great!

A few things that I would like to see would be classes with Suit Choices!

That would give you even greater variety to choose from.

Also I think that PCs shouldn't be masters to start but should have the use soulstone ability. That way they are scaled back a bit. Masters are the powerhouses of the game and you shouldn't start with that kind of power level.

I would like to see a Merchant's Manual as a compilation of equipment in the RPG along with a Monster Guide those I find are the most useful of books along with the player and Master guides.

[Sushicaddy]

RPG for Malifaux sounds great!

A few things that I would like to see would be classes with Suit Choices!

That would give you even greater variety to choose from.

Also I think that PCs shouldn't be masters to start but should have the use soulstone ability. That way they are scaled back a bit. Masters are the powerhouses of the game and you shouldn't start with that kind of power level.

I would like to see a Merchant's Manual as a compilation of equipment in the RPG along with a Monster Guide those I find are the most useful of books along with the player and Master guides.

Classes tend to limit your options, rather than expand them IMHO.

[nilus]

Classes tend to limit your options, rather than expand them IMHO.

Yeah, personally I much rather a free form point based system. I don't mind a career system as long as I can choose to dabble in other areas as well.

I am not anti-D&D style class systems but I think for Malifaux the characters seem much more unique. I think trying to cram uniqueness into standard classes is part of the reason I really disliked Iron Kingdoms. I love the world but would never run it with D20.

[Sushicaddy]

what also excites me about using the card system rather than a typical dice-based system is the MULTITUDE of ways you can add bonuses or negatives to a flip.

for example, a stealth filp.

a stealthy character could have "Hard to notice: 1" all duels to notice this character receive a :mali-flip

Or "Stealthy: 1" this character recives :mali+flip to all duels not to be noticed

Or a Stealth: 1 which simply adds one to the attribute when in a stealth/notice duel.

You could also have spells that give the oppnent or yourself negatives or bonuses to the duel. like Cloak of shadows 13 :malimasks Rst - rg: C this character recives +2 to all stealth duels.

so a real master at stealth could have varying degrees of each to show how stealthy the character is.

[Draykin]

I think Malifaux is perfect for a "class" based system. The characters in the game are already under a class type system. If you look at them in terms of jobs and skill sets. You could play an Undertaker (Nico) or GraveWatcher (Mortimer) on the dark side or (Death Marshal) to be heroic. There is the Merc class already set up. And you could be a Mechanic if you wanted to run someone like Levi. The hunter class could encompas people like the Acolites or Hans. Just a few ideas off the top of my head.

As for running IK in D20...it was never the right system for Iron Kingdoms. Too much emphasis on the high fantasy and not nearly gritty enough. I thought that Alpha Omega was a much better fit for the world...a bit too far on the si-fi side but it could work...maybe.

[Wendigo]

Well, I would like a freefrom system (like Shdowrun 4th) or career system like Warhammer (Both, Fantasy or 40K) better then class systems, because you have far more possibilities for your character and it wouldn't be so bad if two people both played an udetaker, for example. Usually in class based systems at least one player will drop his character, because the other player can do the same stuff.

I would simply expand on the tabletop game for the rpg. While Sushicaddy's idea sound nice, it always is a problem if roughly 1/3 of the damage flips will take the character out of the battle, since it is quite unrealistic to have this not happening on every thrid flip to the players and their soulstone reserves will be quite limited I suppose I think hit points are a better way to go. You could use the indicated flips once the hitpoints reach 0 or are dropped to only 2 or 3 HP left. This way a player can never be sure if those 3 HP he has left will absorp the next blow or if a good damage flip will knock him out cold even though he will only take 2 dmg. (Hope that was clear enough to follow)

[Sushicaddy]

Well, I would like a freefrom system (like Shdowrun 4th) or career system like Warhammer (Both, Fantasy or 40K) better then class systems, because you have far more possibilities for your character and it wouldn't be so bad if two people both played an udetaker, for example. Usually in class based systems at least one player will drop his character, because the other player can do the same stuff.

I would simply expand on the tabletop game for the rpg. While Sushicaddy's idea sound nice, it always is a problem if roughly 1/3 of the damage flips will take the character out of the battle, since it is quite unrealistic to have this not happening on every thrid flip to the players and their soulstone reserves will be quite limited I suppose I think hit points are a better way to go. You could use the indicated flips once the hitpoints reach 0 or are dropped to only 2 or 3 HP left. This way a player can never be sure if those 3 HP he has left will absorp the next blow or if a good damage flip will knock him out cold even though he will only take 2 dmg. (Hope that was clear enough to follow)

The point of that excersice was to show a way to quickly get though combat, and quick combat is necessarily brutal. most non gun weapons would be +0, or -1 anyway, and having armor and hard to wound would significantly increase player survivability. also there are only 13 cards that are 11+ which means that 1/4, not 1/3 of the cards will drop (not kill) a character, and someone would have to use soulstones, or use a ridiculously powerful weapon to actually instant death a character. this also makes soulstones a VALUABLE commodity in the game, and the PC will search them out whereever and whenever they can. recharging soulstones becomes a HUGE deal as well, so what do the PC's do? murder innocents or maybe crazy people? String up criminals? maybe open a hospital or old folk's home? a system like this really drives the characters to look at those possibilities, rather than just consider them.

Personally i also like it when PC's have to take a gun seriously. when someone is waving a gun, he's not screwing around, and the PC's should listen to what he has to say. think about getting shot. check out bullet trauma pictures.

I also have a personal bias against Hit Points in a roleplaying game, as I think that they create too much of an abstraction of physical trauma to the body. They are fine for TT games, and "heroic" games, but for a gritty roleplaying game, they just don't set the right mood for me.

I DO agree with you on a freeform system like shadowrun, that has always been the bar for point-buy systems in my opinion.

[Pseudokinetic]

was toying w/ this for a day or two and didn't realize there was a thread for it ><

was also thinking a unisystem game (like eden studios- i've been playing in a friend's homebrew d10 version of cadwallon rpg)... he based it off the 'angel' version of the rules, but i'd go more towards the 'all flesh must be eaten' rulebook (can't bring myself to buy the angel book- i never watched any of the shows and would feel like a putz [though i like thier use of drama points]).

the short jist of unisystem is i'd give an open way to make a character by not getting bound to classes (though i liked the idea of choosing a suit for a character upon creation), and it's pretty easy to use (anyone ever look into playing the 'anima' rpg? >< ).

*admittedly i never played deadworlds so have no idea if it'd be more appropriate

couple random thoughts:

FATE DECK

i'd love to see a good way to impliment cards instead of dice, and think w/ a tweek of the sucess level chart they could be used pretty much just like in the game (AFMBE had a card variant someone mentioned, but it including taking face cards and converting them to other cards... would be cleaner to be able to use the malifaux deck straight up along w/ possible suit triggers [as mentioned also]).

to be honest, i'm not certain how to handle controll cards though... possibly one draw for them each session? that seems like too few, but one draw each encounter might be too much...

SOULSTONES

make 'use soulstone' a quality anyone may purchase... but don't make them exactly used as in the game... having everyone walking around w/ such a rare commodaty (especially starting out) would be silly imo... i'd use something similar to drama points points that could cover actions like healing flips and such and make soulstones only used for spells. that way they aren't gimped completely until being able to acuire one, and each one aquired could be a signifigant event (given thier rarity and value i think it should be).

when a character acquires a stone, make a random generation as far as how much power the stone would have (maybe a base % then add a random percentile on top of it)... i'd do it for it's maximum potential and for how much power it has remaining at the time f acquisition. possibly allow it to be recharged when near a dying individual (i'd think a random charge of 5-10 or 5-15% per recharge).

when using a soulstone it could be used for anything it normally could ingame, and have associated %s each ability would cost. i'd also keep the costs and charges of stones away from the players and only let them know the relative glow the stone gives... would keep them guessing and make it hard to metagame thier use.

STATS

i'd go w/ something close to the unisystem's but add a couple stats from on the models (a nice note is that willpower is already in both systems)

strength, dexterity, constitution, intelligence, perception, willpower, casting, defense

SKILLS

trying to narrow them down into overall catagories:

acrobatics. athletics, craft (type), crime, demolitions, disguise, dodge, driving, first aid, gambling, guns (type- pistol, rifle, shotgun), hand weapons (type- blunt, pierce, slash? or sword, mace, dagger), influence, martial arts, mechanic, notice, research/investigation, riding, stealth.

i prefer more open skills that can be used in more than one way. i think it also works well in this system as skills can cost a decent amount to train up vs systems that have allocated skill points.

(also not certain if i like a defense stat and a dodge skill... would have to toy w/ that one more)

QUALITIES

this would cover most of the abilites drawbacks, and spells a pc could aquire, possibly along w/ triggers. suits that were chosen in character creation could determine qualities (something like flay only available to masks for instance)

COMBAT

keep opposed duals to determine hits (hence the doubt on both def and dodge), i love the 3 levels of damage and would keep that (though i'd stick w/ hit points and such... i'm not a fan of too much realism in a rpg).

i'd also want to use action points. this would allow the most flexibility in what they do each round. also keeping a (0) ability once a turn could be amusing... though granted it does kinda reek of DnD's combat, walk, and free actions.

if i whip anything together more solid than this i'd have to take liberties on fluff (as great as it is, there aren't many detailed items in the book's storyline). i'd prolly keep everyone a human for the sake of easy at least to start... not many neverborn or gremlins should be walking around the city (well.... maybe dopplegangers...).

if there are ANY thoughts on some of this i'd love to hear them and ty to anyone who was actually bored enough to read me spewing random thoughs from my head (this is the 1st time i actaually put them down on something).

[weebaldy]

HEAVENS!! thats a TON o Work there, thanks for taking the time to post it. I think it all sounds great to me, I am gonna print this out and take some more time to absorb it all.

Thanks again

WB

[Pseudokinetic]

hehe, ty for the compliment.. trying to toss something more concrete together at the moment... no idea how to incorporate spells yet (or at least how to do thier conversions yet). character creation is almost done, i'll toss a seperate post up if desired (and if it's ok w/ the admins and actual owners of malifaux).

[Krinn]

I admit, I don't have the Malifaux book (yet), but the setting is interesting, and I'd probably pony up for an RPG. Since this is the place to speak your thoughts about it, here's mine:

THE SYSTEM: Some people want to modify the existing card-based system, and if you can do it, more power to you. (I'm reminded of the Warhammer Fantasy RPG and Dark Heresy, which takes some mechanics and stats from the tabletop games - WS and BS, f'r instance.) Others recommend a semi-general system like Unisystem or Savage Worlds. As a SW fan, I see it like this: for fans who can't wait, go ahead and port it over. If you're more interested in an actual product (Coming soon from Wyrd Miniatures: Malifaux the RPG!), I'd honestly say let them do their own thing, and I'd guess they'd make a card-based system.

THE FATE DECK: Again, part of what interested me is the card system. SW uses cards (and it's ancestor, Deadlands, used them for a whole lot more), so yeah, let's try to get more shuffle out there.

SOULSTONES: SW has the bennies/fate chips to use to get a reroll/damage soak, so I figure for a Malifaux RPG, soulstones could be used in play for a similiar effect.

STATS 'N SKILLS: I figure if the stats from the minis game can be easily ported over and adapted to an RPG, port them over. If not, drop them and get stats that will work. Pseudokinetic gave a pretty decent list, my only qualms are having perception, casting, and defence as stats - most games have perception and casting (which I'm guessing is spellcasting) as skills, and defense is usually based on other stats and modifiers.

Skillwise, I'm also in agreement with Pseudokinetic - make the skills general. I'd go the SW route and instead of having a Shooting skill with specializations in pistol/rifle/gatling shotgun/automated poop flinger on a stick/whatever, just have one Shooting skill that covers anything that can reach out and hurt someone.

QUALITIES - or, since I'm such a SW nerd, EDGES & HINDRANCES - Yes. Always give players ways to make them individual and stand out. Maybe have an Edge to be "aligned" with a suit for cardplay, perhaps.

COMBAT - Again, I don't have the book, just have a general idea of Malifaux combat thanks to Nerdelemental's Primer. If you want to use the cards for combat, I think the biggest hurdle is making sure the skirmish-based rules can work in an RPG. Using other systems - like I said prior, I'm a Savage Worlds fan, and I dig those rules. YMMV.

SPELLS & SPELLCASTING: SW uses this thinking for it's magic: Whenever a mage casts Magic Missle, or a Cleric casts Holy Bolt, or a Psyker casts Mind Bullets, they're all doing the same thing (a ranged attack) only with different trappings and flavor text. So, SW's "spell list" is rather general, you pick the spells you want, think up appropriate trappings (or whatever you think is cool), and there you go. For a setting like Malifaux, with it's Arcanists, Necromancers/Resurrection Men, Steampunk Tinkerers 'n whatnot, I would recommend something similiar to SW's magic list, with a large list of general spells that players can adapt to their characters. Plus, it has rules to make Weird Scientists, and with chars like Ramos, Weird Science would work wonderfully in Malifaux.

Again, these are just my thoughts and opinions. Interested in hearing yours.

[Talishko]

Hope this is the right place to ask this - after all it is rpg related. If not, or this has been asked/answered (couldn't find it) just ignore me.

Is there a map drawn for the world of malifaux somewhere to be found? In the main rulebook, perhaps? I am still waiting for my copy to arrive (bloody Royal Mail strike). I have read all the fluff i could find and i think it is a perfect set up for a good rpg, but a map would really help me putting things into place.

Thanks,

[Pseudokinetic]

there's a loose 'hand drawn' style map on the last page of the book. doesn't give much in the way of detail, but shows major locations in relation to the city proper.

(mainly story related locations)

[Talishko]

That sounds great, thanks.

This just makes me wanting the book even more... :sad2:

[Darkeldar]

As I've been exploring RPG systems I've came across the Fate system as represented by Spirit of the Century (though I'm looking at Starblazer Adventures now). It does have an interesting system of Aspects and Stunts that fit in with the very characterful stats that Malifaux uses. An SRD for SotC can be found here: http://www.crackmonkey.org/~nick/loyhargil/fate3/fate3.html .

As Fate uses a -/0/+ dice mechanic to modify skill levels, and just by assigning a value to the cards you could use them instead of dice. Probably a mechanic for the jokers could spice up the sucesses or failures. Soulstones could translate to Fate points, but they aren't as finite as they are in the miniatures game.

Give SotC a look, as I'm still studying the system as well, it looks like a good fit from what I've seen.

[Cenotaph]

Absolutely 100% behind the idea of a card based RPG for this setting. Just don't get too involved with the card mechanics. I've played Deadlands for many years and still struggle to follow what is better than whatever else. Maybe it's because I'm not a gambler but there are players in our group who always seem to get the better result because they know how to manipulate the cards better. I'm too wrapped up the playing my character to concentrate on that sort of stuff so I often seem to play the wrong card or waste my good cards needlessly.

So please keep it simple.

[sjostrand]

I think I will use as many rules as possible from the existing game. The players will begin as potential henchmen.

Before play, they begin with:

Wk/Cg 3/5

Wp 3

Ca 3

Df 3

Wd 4

Cb 3

Cb 3

Dg 1/2/3

And no Talents/Spells.

Then they got 15 points (maybe another number (15 would make them like a gunslinger without talents/spells)) to buy increases for. Wk/Cg, Wd and Dg cost 0,5 points to raise. If they want they can buy a suit to a trait. They will also be able to buy talents/spells for a cost of 1 point each. If they do they have to choose one from the existing (with the game master’s approval).

They also have to buy 3 skills. A skill will cover a lot (more like an occupation or hobby).

For each “scene/chapter” they will draw control cards to their hands, and that’s what they have to stick with until next scene.

They will be able to cheat fate and use soulstones. When they need to use a skill the Game Master decide an appropriate target number.

This way they are not very good at the beginning (I don’t want them to charge and try to kill Rasputina the first thing they do just because she is wanted…). They will receive experience points quite frequently.

So what will they do? I think the setting works fine for some investigation/intrigue. They will begin as human mercenaries. The Guild will buy their services, but everything is maybe not as it looks like… During their investigation they will meet Zoraida, Seamus and Ramos who will tell them their version of the situation. And it will also be a battle will the gremlins in the bayou…

By the end, they may have decided to stay with one faction or continue as mercenaries…

Edited:

I think the points should be to buy traits and some additional points to buy talents/skills.

Edited December 3, 2009 by sjostrand

[nightgaunt98c]

You could go alot of ways with this, but I think the mechanics of the game would work fine for an rpg. Character creation is the challenging part. I think the stats as presented could work, with some modification, or additions, like strength, or charisma. Healing could be an issue, but you could give them soulstones, or keep it combat light, and focus on exploration, and investigation, with a bit of intrigue thrown in for fun. There's alot to consider, but I don't see any huge obstacles to creating a totally unique system for Malifaux.

[Wombats]

Part of Malifaux's appeal is it already has a level of immersion similiar to a roleplaying game.

I'd be more interested in more complex scenarios and fluff around Malifaux.

Non-combat actions and a little politics, maybe a Risk map.

I think an additional RPG game system is unecessary.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I would be delighted to see roleplaying supplements, if only as a source of further background.

If the writing is as tight and intriguing as the Malifaux rulebook I'll buy it for sure.

[Talishko]

@Sjostrand

Don't forget that the Cb, Df and Dg stats are highly dependant on equipment. For an RPG you might need more depth of statistics than what works well for a fast paced skirmish game. I'm not saying it should be overly complex but a lvl 1 character should be able to deal the same dmg with a gun as a lvl10 does with that same gun. But the lvl 1 char should have different Cb for different weapons as obviously is not experienced with everything. In the TTG you have sets that were made ready for you, but in RPG it can fall apart in a minute... The witchling hunter loses its broad blade and nicks the daggers from the corpse on the floor. The original game was not prepared for such situation (and why would it), but you intend to...