seamus

[zombiesatemygoldfish]

Played my first game with him last night and I feel clueless.

I dont see alot of synergy in the box set. Is companion that good? I was playing against a witchling group and it seemed the game is about alot of trying to do stuff and alot of failing. Is it because we were only playing 20 points so could counter almost every play with a card, and maybe at higher points would have to be stingier with the cards?

How is the box set supposed to be played?

[StormHalo]

I also played a game with Seamus, my first and only game as a matter of fact.

Aside from being extremely difficult to kill, the Belles aren't very good at anything. They have a few support powers, sure...but they're not particularly adept at getting them to go off, nor can one rely upon them to hit anything in close combat. To me, they're meant to slow down or reposition the opponent's crew, allowing you to pick your battles with Seamus more effectively.

Seamus too isn't a combat ace and he's no sure shot, but he can use soulstones and he can raise corpse counters. He's damn hard to kill and excessive bleeding is not to be taken lightly. If you have a rough game with him and cause very few wounds but hit everything with excessive bleeding, you can pull a win out at the end of the game that your opponent can't do anything about.

Again, I only played one game, and I am searching for a good way to play the crew too. These are the things I've noticed about them so far though.

[commandersputnik]

So any ideas what might be a good addition to the minis included in the Seamus box?

Since I'd like to order soon, any hints are highly appreciated!!!

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

Seamus is awesome.

His biggest strength is fear. Make your enemies run from you. Act surgical, pull one model away from the herd with multiple "Lures" and pile on.

Companion Sybelle with Seamus and the rest of the Belles will follow her (as long as they're 6" from Sybelle).

Activating all of your models before your opponent has been nicknamed the "Alpha Stike".

[HuGo]

Plus the Belles are damn good.

Lure,Undress ,Distract all of them are very,very,very good.

In addition you get 2 Melee Weapons , 8 Wounds, Htk and Std for 4 Points.

I don't want to play any res list without at least 1 belle !

[darkphantomz]

Speaking of Seamus, how would you use him to go about defeating a Raspinutia feline list with the Cerebus, and multiple Hoarcat Prides?

I was thinking using lure to get them out of position and and bringing them down via range combat with Seamus, his totem, convict gunslinger or Hans. Then have Seamus raise up another Belle from the multiple tokens left behind.

[Repeter]

I've only played one game over 25ss, so my advice is to be taken lightly, but I did find that at 35ss, cards became alot less available. I like this alot, as it does allow for less counters to moves.

Adding in strategies and schemes also is something that makes this game great. I advise after an initial run-through, add these right away and start learning them.

[zombiesatemygoldfish]

Ok so one thing I was doing wrong, I don't need to pull masks to cast lure this may improve my outlook on the set...

But abilities like call belle on the sybelle with a CC: of 15 masks, So on the flip I have to have a 9+ that is a mask, is this kind of difficulty typical?

[Kealios]

Yea, the ability Seductive makes Lure very dangerous and easy to get off (4+ of anything!). Ive been pulled into some very bad spots because of multiple Lures...

As for Call Belle being a 9+ :malimasks yea, that is a typical difficulty on a lot of "bigger" spells. You basically only cast those when you have the correct cards in your hand that will allow you to cheat to get the cast off. When it works, though, its a big slingshot, either forwards or backwards...

[zombiesatemygoldfish]

Ok, so everyone is saying that seamus fear effects make him powerful? How is this. I have yet to have any opponent fail a wp check as it just a card flip on their behalf that they can cheat on, and nothing I can add to, and yes I am aware of seamus's wp lowering aura. Is there something Im goofing up here?

[Pensfan]

One of the biggest things missing is what Repeter said... in a 35SS game, the cards are fewer and far between. In a 20SS game, you can burn an extra card cheating the WP roll so yeah it is more likely that in the smaller games, the WP tests are going to be passed a bit more. Where in the larger games, you are far more likely to save cards to cheat something more important or critical.

[Magno]

Ok, so everyone is saying that seamus fear effects make him powerful? How is this. I have yet to have any opponent fail a wp check as it just a card flip on their behalf that they can cheat on, and nothing I can add to, and yes I am aware of seamus's wp lowering aura. Is there something Im goofing up here?

Aha! There you miss something. If you're forcing your opponent into a lot of WP checks (both Sybelle and Saemus are terriying) and they're having to cheat to win, then you're burning his control hand and soulstones just to activate near you or not be lured.

This is when "Slit Jugular" can be pulled off if he's no more cards.

Your forcing him to burn all his resources before he hits or defend from you and thus making the Belles that much more affective in Combat.

Its a subtle but awesome way of resource control on the table that I've learned to love.

[zombiesatemygoldfish]

Aha! There you miss something. If you're forcing your opponent into a lot of WP checks (both Sybelle and Saemus are terriying) and they're having to cheat to win

They wp checks they have to take don't require a very high card to be dropped to pass, unless you have already activated seamus and done the WP aura - which is just makes the card go from having to be roughly a 6 to roughly an 8 on avg. so they have at least a 50% chance of not needing to cheat.

Which I can understand that with lure you can drag people into terrifying models - but typically thats maybe 4 inches of movement per lure as most opponents don't leave themselves in LOS, forcing a move action then a lure. Maybe I just need to move up to the 35 SS setting but I'm just not getting much bang for the buck out of seamus's box set.

Edited September 10, 2009 by zombiesatemygoldfish

[Kealios]

The more you make someone flip, the more they have a need to cheat. The more they cheat, the less options they have later in the turn for future flips.

Let's say a 13 and a 1 are on the top of your opponent's deck. Would you rather he flips the 13 for a Terror check or a Charge against you? Trust me...this has happened in my games MANY times ("DOH! I could have used that!!!")

The more flips he has to do, and the less you have to do, the better. I've burned an entire hand cheating to keep my Master from being Lured into bad places because my flips were really bad. Of course, later in the turn my flips balanced and were really good, but I still didnt have as many cheating options as I would have wanted...

[StormHalo]

The Belles have two options for close combat right? Not two attacks per turn?

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

The Belles have two options for close combat right? Not two attacks per turn?

Correct.

2 Options. But remember, if you are already in melee, you can take both of your AP's as combat actions.

[AoM]

Tough to kill, great triggers, and the ability to summon more dead hookers. The Seamus box is great.

Seamus himself is a much more powerful model than you seem to be ending up with in your games. I don't have stats in front of me, but I know Seamus is a lot more dangerous than you're making him seem.

Yes, Belles aren't amazing in combat. Luckily, they've got Lure, Undress, and a nice trigger. And with the ability to activate together with Companion, they can put more than enough hurt on one model each turn.

[jmp_mydog]

Seamus can be really dangerous. In one of the games I played recently he got to a graveyard and could pop out a new belle every turn. If you take the Resurectionist scheme it's almost a sure thing.

The belles work best in large groups use one to lower the stats, one to lure then beat on them with the rest.

I'm still trying to make sure I have all the rules down, but each box seems to have some synergy. It seems that at 30 SS you'll get the most out of the game, adding a few models will shore up any glaring weaknesses.

[hannibal]

Since I'm one of the participants in the "Cheating Fate" conversation, which has grown a bit heated and probably long since ceased to be helpful, I thought I'd do some public service and change the subject:

I have a Seamus box on order from my FLGS (c'moooooon restock!!). I'm wondering what to get to take them from their 20 SS to 35SS and maybe even 45.

Obviously, the crew will include Seamus, Sybelle, and 3 Belles. That's 20 SS.

I'm thinking of adding Grave Spirit instead of the Copycat Killer as a totem. Seamus's spells are really difficult to cast and I just don't foresee Cheating Fate to get them off. Too many other potential uses. So whichever route I go, I'll be using the totem for its other abilities primarily.

The Copycat Killer's flintlock is nice, but taking wounds limits it. Yeah I could probably cast Live for Pain to get some wounds back but again, that's an 11 I need to pull that off. That's only a little over a 1-in-5 chance. Then again, three shots is the majority of the game (assuming 1-2 turns of maneuvering). And then I only need to cheat once to heal two wounds through Live for Pain (assuming the resist fails).

The Grave Spirit though costs 1 SS for essentially Armor 2, which is nice value. The only downside is it only affects undead, so I can't link him with Seamus. Which makes sense, because that'd just be sick. Still, link him with Sybelle and she's a pretty good tank. Even better, if there's a fight where I simply need someone to hold the line I can walk this guy over and have him link up with that Belle who needs to not die. And since he's a companion, I could do it and still have seamus to run around before my opponent can retaliate.

So what do you think? Go for the extra shooty with the Copycat or extra durability with the Grave Spirit?

What I know I'll be adding are two punk zombies. They'll add some punch that's desperately needed. That's a good 10 SS right there. I was also thinking about taking a Hanged. I just wonder if its worthwhile. On the surface, he seems just the right complement. Between Horrifying, terrifying, and the ability to knock off half a model's wounds (so the belles can finish the model off), he just seems a good fix.

One of my early ideas is to include Sebastian and two Canine Remains. Mainly for the mini-alpha strike but also to be a backup for the belles. He can heal them or inflict some serious hurt. But it just doesn't feel right, I mean, he's McM's guy. And besides, I can't see Seamus, a man of true class, running around with someone like Sebastian. He's just such a . . . prol.

So,some quick ideas for crews are:

30SS: Seamus, (Copycat Killer/Grave Spirit) Totem, Sybelle, 3 Belles, 2 Punk Zombies.

35SS: Seamus, Sybelle, 3 Belles, 2 Punk Zombies, 1 Hanged.

45SS: Seamus, (Copycat Killer/Grave Spirit) Totem, Sybelle, 3 Belles, 3 Punk Zombies, 1 Hanged.

The 30 & 35 SS crews leave me without any soulstones, and I get the feeling I might need them to resurrect some Belles. The 45 SS gives me 3 more soulstones, which feels like enough. Any thoughts? Am I way off base here?

[jmp_mydog]

In the few games I've played with Seamus, I've needed every stone he has. Arise my sweet is difficult to pull off without Cheating Fate and most of the time you'll need to burn a stone to add to it.

The Belles are great when they work in tandem but otherwise they're junk tanks that burn through cards because of hard to wound. In a game I played last night the Rasputina player burned through his deck almost twice.

Since we haven't gone past 25SS I can't really speak on the Zombie Punks they look great on paper and I plan to try them soon.

[Isoulle]

The Saemus boxset is pretty good but optimizing wise you want more high damage units (Yep, good old punk zombies). In fact I like only taking 1 or 2 as to be honest he'll summon plenty more as the game goes on and as such should focus more on the units he can't summon. The Hanged is also nice (Or 2 at 35 SS. 2 Hanged, 2 belles and 2 punk zombies ain't bad. You can drop the belle for another punk zombie or a crooked man).

As for the Belles, the belle basically exist for 2 purposes.

1. To be very hard to kill for their SS cost.

2. To cast lure.

They're not bruisers, they're not fast. Instead they're tough as nails and havea great movement spell.

[jmp_mydog]

Don't forget Distract when it works causing slow to 2 or 3 models is pretty useful.

[hannibal]

In the few games I've played with Seamus, I've needed every stone he has. Arise my sweet is difficult to pull off without Cheating Fate and most of the time you'll need to burn a stone to add to it.

Yeah, I'm just planning on needing to cheat & burn a soulstone for Arise My Sweet. But Seamus does come with 2 for free, so I see that as 2 belles summoned. Do you think a couple of extra soulstones is better than having another flintlock?

Conversely, I could have the Grave Spirit and 1 extra Soulstone. Maybe have my 35 SS crew be:

V1: Seamus, Sybelle, 3 Belles, 3 Punk Zombies. 2 SS left over (4 total)

V2: Seamus, Copycat Killer, Sybelle, 4 Belles, 2 Punk Zombies. 1 SS left over (3 total).

V3: As above but swap Grave Spirit for Copycat. Gives 2 SS left over (4 total).

The Belles are great when they work in tandem but otherwise they're junk tanks that burn through cards because of hard to wound. In a game I played last night the Rasputina player burned through his deck almost twice.

Yeah I'm thinking that 3 of them will allow me to peel off enemy models in the early turns. Cast Lure a bunch of times and then with any spare APs I have use Undress on the lured model or Distract to slow people down in the early stages of the game.

[AoM]

Throw in some Necropunks instead of Punk Zombies if you're in the mood for a change of pace. Those little buggers are nasty!

I also like our old pal Mortimer with Seamus.

[hannibal]

Really, 3 necropunks instead of 2 punk zombies? I dunno. Those punk zombies seem a much better use.

And Mortimer with Seamus? Seems so gauche for a man of such class. . .