agorfein Posted November 18, 2009 Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 You also have to be careful of SSing up for a spider. You need to cheat first then SS so you can still fail. It's worse than that, you can't SS for Reactivate, only for casting Ramos' spells. I REALLY REALLY want to get Ramos to work. If Malifaux was an RPG then Ramos would be exactly the character I'd like to play. However, his abilities seem really underwhelming compared to some of the other masters. I am beginning to think that creating spiders should be very secondary compared to creating electrical creations and supporting with electrical fire and arc. I still am not able to convince myself though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutcase168 Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 I haven't been able to 2 to spiders in a turn, but 1 and reactivate isn't as hard. I bring Rusty Alyce who lets me draw 2 more cards, plus any time you cast the spider you are triggering surge letting you discard a card and draw another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parius Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 (edited) Using soulstones with Ramos to summon is the trick to making this work. If you cheat in a tome or happen to flip one the number value mostly doesn't matter once you add to the casting total. (It's easy enough to flip the remaining value needed) And, though soulstones are important for defense, look at it this way... You're paying 1 point and using a 0 action to bring out a 3 point model. Even if you are only successful every other try, you are still coming out ahead in points. Edited November 19, 2009 by Parius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brasidas Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 plus any time you cast the spider you are triggering surge letting you discard a card and draw another. Double check the wording of Surge, I don't have my book with me at work today, but I believe that in order for Surge to trigger, your opponent must fail his resist test. No resist test on spider creation. IIRC, the only spell of Ramos' that you could trigger Surge off of would be Electrical Fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEiRD sKeTCH Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Brasidas is correct. You have to be able to perform all of the requirements of a trigger in order to perform it. Thus, Surge requires that there is a defender failing a resist for it to be performed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nerdelemental Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Which is why Marcos is confused. He's like, "Oh, me! Me! I want to Surge! Come here and let me heal you so I can Surge!" :heeeellll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archangelq Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 Also, though I haven't tried it yet, you can always use 'focus(2)' to give yourself a positive flip on the attempt at casting the reactivate spell on the brass arachnid. I plan to try that next time I don't have a 10+ tomb in my control hand when I'm planning to use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agorfein Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 Also, though I haven't tried it yet, you can always use 'focus(2)' to give yourself a positive flip on the attempt at casting the reactivate spell on the brass arachnid. I plan to try that next time I don't have a 10+ tomb in my control hand when I'm planning to use it. I suppose it's worth a shot, though the odds aren't good. You need an 11+ to cast (surge is 16) which means there are 4 cards in the deck which will do it: 11, 12, 13 tomes and the red joker. Assuming you don't have one in your six card hand, that gives you a 4 in 47 (54 card deck minus 6 in hand and 1 for initiative) chance of drawing it on the first draw and 4 in 46 on the second. Your odds may be better if it is later in the turn and the needed cards haven't come up and a bit better still as you probably had some discards from the previous turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutcase168 Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 Don't you reshuffle your discards in during each closing phase? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archangelq Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 Stuff from the previous turn, yes. But your control hand discards go down at the beginning of the turn, right before draw, after you've shuffled. @agorfein: True on the odds, but if you can pull it off, totally worth it. Just suggesting things to help your odds out. Starting with a crew of swarm + spider and ending the first turn with swarm + swarm is a great way to start the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeenip Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Not a Ramos player myself (so unsure of the names/action requirements) but i've had the following happen to me with swarms. My opponent was capitilising on the split/combine ability. Wk either as a swarm/single then split/combine for an additional 6 inches of summon distance. The summoned model/s receives slow but may activate again (classified as a new entity). Seems like a good setup for some tricky combo's. - Greater flexibility in detonation positioning - Almost risk free line penetration - Ability to focus melee targets at your own discretion - Easy setup for latching Again i'm not a ramos player so i'm not sure if the tactic was valid, but I couldn't see why it wouldn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parius Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 My opponent was capitilising on the split/combine ability. Wk either as a swarm/single then split/combine for an additional 6 inches of summon distance. This, sadly, does not work though I really wish that it did to help out with how slow moving the spiders are. Buried on Page 21 of the rules discussion forum... http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7446 When you swarm, or break apart, the new models replace the old's spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cerealkiller195 Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 still not a bad tactic since they count as summoned gives you an extra activation of movement or attack of something is really that close? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parius Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 It's a great tactic, just doesn't give you the extra movement. It works much better in reverse though... Double walk or charge 3 singles in, use latch on (effect lasts till end of turn) combine into a swarm, and get off 3 attacks with your opponent's reduced Df score! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fool Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 It's a great tactic, just doesn't give you the extra movement. It works much better in reverse though... Double walk or charge 3 singles in, use latch on (effect lasts till end of turn) combine into a swarm, and get off 3 attacks with your opponent's reduced Df score! Not how it works either. Doing the combine takes an (1) action. you could walk (once) 2 spiders in do a latch on and attack once. Then you would have to walk the other spider up (and touching both of the first spiders) and do a (1) combine. When it is your turn again you are slow and can use your 1ap left to attack, and then use melee expert to attack further. Latch on will no longer be in effect though, because the models that latched on are no longer on the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parius Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Latch on will no longer be in effect though, because the models that latched on are no longer on the table. So in Malifaux, removing the source of an effect removes the effect? I don't have my book with me to look into this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fool Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 So in Malifaux, removing the source of an effect removes the effect? I don't have my book with me to look into this. I've been wrong twice today so this may be wrong also :irked: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBugKing Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 So in Malifaux, removing the source of an effect removes the effect? I don't have my book with me to look into this. latch on is a rather specific case. You have to meet the conditions of teh ability. Namely being in base to base for it to work. If you aren't in BtB it stops working. Since the Swarm doesn't have latch on the effect does not carry over. Paralyze from Overwhelm simply states that the model gains paralyzed. There are no conditions on it once the event is created. In that case the effect continues even if the model that caused teh effect is no longer on the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parius Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Thank you for the clarification, I've been playing this wrong. (+1 to Fool for noticing) Are there any other conditional abilities like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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