jtgmarketing Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Hi folks. This isn't exactly news but since it concerns this forum I thought it might be interesting to cross-post it here. There is a topic on TGN Talk about the responsibility (or lack thereof) of posters to credit the sources of their material and also, not related to this forum at all, whether people should repost original photos and content at all. Check it out on TGN Talk http://talk.tabletopgamingnews.com/index.php?topic=384.0 I'd be interested to see what people think Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ritual Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 The original info of miniature news comes from the companies producing the miniatures. And, it is usually the nature of "spreading news around" to also mention what company they concern. It seems a bit superfluous to me to mention that "oh, and I saw these news first being reported on this or that site..." as, IMO, the original source (i.e. the manufacturer) is the only part that matters. In the case of using images that does not come from the company in question (photos taken at conventions, etc.)... If someone posts them on the Internet, they must be aware that the pictures are "out there" and may be used by others. Yes, you can be polite and mention who took the pictures, but if someone doesn't, what's to be done about it? And here, as well, the important thing is what is shown, the products and who made them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malebolgia Posted August 15, 2009 Report Share Posted August 15, 2009 Well, since this whole discussion seems to be focused on my work here as a News Monkey I think I should chip in too. First of all, let me make clear that I am in no way affiliated with Wyrd Games and that my opinions may not be Wyrd's opinions. I just post all interesting news I can find on the web in this forum. I bear the name 'News Monkey' but it's not a function at Wyrd and I am not paid in any way for it (and no Nathan, this is not a cheeky way to get paid in any way, I really don't want that :hippie:). So this post is my view, let that be clear. The first thing that struck me as "interesting coincidence" is that jtgmarketing PM'ed me yesterday about this matter and asked me if I could add my sources to the news posts as he thought it was decent (to which I declined). On the same day this discussion opens on TGN. I'm not paranoid, but this does strike me as odd. Yesterday I told jtgmarketing I won't go into my choice and that if he did not like my view, he should contact Nathan as his word is law. But since this whole thing has taken on a whole different level, I will reply why I won't state my sources. First, let me explain how I do my thing as News Monkey. I think it will explain my decision and hopefully people understand why I think stating sources is not necessary and also a lot of hassle. I start my mornings by browsing the web for miniatures news. Yes, I am a miniatures junky and I can't get enough of it. I check all of the nice websites I have bookmarked: The Miniatures Page, Frothers Un!te, The Lead Adventure Forum, Tabletop Gaming News, The Forum of Doom, Cool Mini or Not, Miniature Gaming News, Privateer Press, GW. Most of these websites have mentions of the interesting miniatures and games that will come back later when I (re)post the news. During my coffee breaks I go back to the websites and then visit the manufacturers from there if possible. I will copy+paste the material from the manufacturer's website and put in a link to the manufacturer's website. Of course, this means that the text (in italics) is not always taken from the website. If a sculptor posts his texts on a forum like Frothers, I will copy+paste it from there, make all the text by the sculptor in italics and enter a link to the manufacturer's website. So my news posts have the following format (if possible): *Title (Bold) *Photos (taken from the manufacturer's website or by any other website posted by the manufacturer) *Text from the manufcaturer or by one of his employees on a forum (Itallics), including prices, descriptions, etc. *Link (*Sometimes personal texts and opinions) So basically I am mostly posting the news one or two hours after I first saw them. Okay, how should I credit these then? In order of reading (don't have a clue), in order of relevance or interesting value, or just all of them? "Source=Frothers, LAF, FoD". TBH, that's a lot of extra work. Posting the news is already a lot of work, as the code can get scrambled when copy+pasting and I daily press Alt+Tab more than I have miniatures at home! And even if I did, what's really the point? In the end I am posting news from the manufacturers or people affiliated to them. I am not posting the text from the news websites. Yes, there are a few exceptions: I have used news that was solely published on a website like TGN, Frothers or Warseer (i.e. photos taken at a con). But in such cases, I added the link to that website, the direct source of the news as it wasn't published anywhere else or the manufacturer's website. That seems only logical to me. I don't see the added value of adding the source where I found the news when I am posting everything directly from the manufacturer. In the end, the people who see nice miniatures will want to know where to buy them and where to find more information on them. AKA the manufacturers. It's like a national news press agency that puts out a general news press (here in Holland it's the ANP (Netherlands national news agency) who does that) which gets literally quoted by, say five newspapers. I see the news in several newspapers, go to the news press agency's website and quote the text from there and add a link to their website. What's the point of adding links to the newspapers in which I read the general news released by the news press agency? In the end, the whole text, any photos and link is from the news press agency. So that's my view on the whole thing. I will not reply in TGN's forum but if anyone thinks this post has value, feel free to copy+paste it. No problem. Cheers, Marijn Bierhof Ps. As a a final note, if a majority here, or Nathan, thinks I act wrong and I should add the sources then of course I will do so. I won't let my personal view get in the way of my work as a news monkey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueM Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 (edited) I don't care about this discussion about credits but I will say that I'd rather you did not post generic news on a forum dedicated to one company. Sure, a few topics you'd like to bring up and discuss with the Wyrd community, fine, but not in the manner I have noted in the 2 weeks I have checked this forum. ... I sure hope that Nathan does not pay you because quite frankly you are liable to lose him money by your lack of consideration for those interesting in Wyrd and nothing else, spoiling some users enjoyment of this forum and I for one will only be checking the front page from now on to see what's up with Wyrd - I do not have time to wade through a lot of 'news' post for things that frankly are irrelevant. If I want 'news' then I check a news site, as simple as that! Edited August 16, 2009 by RogueM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illustrange Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 I don't care about this discussion about credits but I will say that I'd rather you did not post generic news on a forum dedicated to one company. Sure, a few topics you'd like to bring up and discuss with the Wyrd community, fine, but not in the manner I have noted in the 2 weeks I have checked this forum. ... I sure hope that Nathan does not pay you because quite frankly you are liable to lose him money by your lack of consideration for those interesting in Wyrd and nothing else, spoiling some users enjoyment of this forum and I for one will only be checking the front page from now on to see what's up with Wyrd - I do not have time to wade through a lot of 'news' post for things that frankly are irrelevant. If I want 'news' then I check a news site, as simple as that! It is actually the other way around. wyrd started way back as a community with a love for all miniatures, and (tough not 100% sure, since when I came here there were allready 3 or 4 miniatures.) and it has always remained that way, the painting competitions that made wyrd grow over time (loooong before 2 weeks ago.) have always been about ALL miniatures, not because the staff "would allow it" but because they want it that way themselves and helped in organizing all of this. now with their own game around since 2 days I dont see that changing anything soon, Nathan and Co have no profit-corporate attitude towards this (at least, not in the open ) but still do it all for the love of the hobby and their little wyrd baby. I also dont see how this attitude has lost them money over the years, they are still in business and growing strong even tough they did allow other miniatures to be discussed and to be entered in the painting competitions. One thing that would have hinted this for you when you looked more closely is the fact that the "discussions and interests" section of the forum is meant for discussions and interests within the entire hobby. only the Malifaux section is just for malifaux. I would say more.. but I leave it at this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueM Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 (edited) I have no problem with horizons being broaden. What I have a problem with is skimming through a dozen of unrelated topics marked as 'unread' every time I visit this forum. In respect to losing money, I'm sure you have heard of the silent majority? I had to extract every bit of info from dozens of threads to feed other players curiosity pre-Gencon... all I had talked to about the game, including some keen newsmongers, had given up on it after 5 minutes here. If Wyrd has no intention of putting up a dedicated website separate from the forum in the near future then that's their decision but I don't see myself and others working this hard to get info about their product range. Edited August 16, 2009 by RogueM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brushmistress Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 I find that someone thinking they deserve to be credited as the "original" news source is preposterous. In far more important aspects of global news, the stories are often copied and pasted. I don't always see the AP credited, but you know damn well the story came from them. Get over it. You're doing a swell job Malebolgia, and I hope you keep it up as long as you can. I've found a lot of interesting manufacturers through your diligent digging, and it in no way has detracted from my love of Wyrd miniatures. I didn't start coming here for news on other companies, but it's an added bonus to a forum I already enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illustrange Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 I have no problem with horizons being broaden. What I have a problem with is skimming through a dozen of unrelated topics marked as 'unread' every time I visit this forum. In respect to losing money, I'm sure you have heard of the silent majority? I had to extract every bit of info from dozens of threads to feed other players curiosity pre-Gencon... all I had talked to about the game, including some keen newsmongers, had given up on it after 5 minutes here. If Wyrd has no intention of putting up a dedicated website separate from the forum in the near future then that's their decision but I don't see myself and others working this hard to get info about their product range. well malifaux specific news is always on the frontpage, so that leaves it only troublesome concerning faction or rules discussion. mind you there has been hints before that after malifaux release the wyrd site will get a revamp, Im expecting on of these is moving towards a real site, and have the forum as an extra (currently after all is said and done, it is a forum and a shop with some extras.) I dont know the details but perhaps this should solve that issue, if indeed it is an issue for some people worth tackling, I can see an easy solution in letting members adjust their settings of *new posts* warnings (I think TMP has that element as well.) were people can only select to be updated on specific boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Caroland Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 Frankly I'm not pleased someone decides to sling a bit of mud while I'm off at convention, but so be it. I've made my comments in private and am happy to send along publicly as well that Wyrd supports the hobby in any and every fashion, that includes posting news and information about our 'competitors'. Marijn does a great job with gathering and posting news as he has done for us over the years and has outright admitted where he has gotten the various news feeds. I think I can say with all outright honesty that manufacturers quite frankly don't care who gets the news and information out and where it goes and comes from, long as it gets out there. More folks that hear about it, the better chance that someone will take interest in their product line. I see Marijn has taken to posting these last few days and tossing links as well but I'm not going to demand one way or another that he do something as he is not employed or compensated in the least for being an enthusiast. Wyrd does, and always will support the hobby as a whole. And yes, there is a new website being developed (and a goodly bit done too). 'nuff said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgn-editor Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 I can see an easy solution in letting members adjust their settings of *new posts* warnings (I think TMP has that element as well.) were people can only select to be updated on specific boards. Bill custom wrote that code and I don't know if there is a similar sort of thing for vBulletin. I'd like to post a quick apology here for any "fuss" that got started because of this thread. It wasn't my intention to associate Wyrd with what was going on here and if that has happened then I apologize. This is simply where it has occurred and I have edited my original post on TGN Talk to reflect that. I hope that my updates on that topic have cleared up any confusion that may have resulted. I am sorry if this post has caused any inconvenience or trouble for anyone. Malebolgia, I do wish you would drop by TGN Talk and discuss the topic there. I am actually interested in hearing what other people's opinions are and as I did emphasize in the topic there, I do actually think you are providing a value-added service here with the additional synthesis of sources you do. Again, my apologies to Nate, the Wyrd team and any forum members here for any trouble or inconvenience this topic may have caused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mquarmby Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 I say 'mehhh': - If a private source is used, publish it (already being done to my satisfaction) - If its a general manufacturer news - we know where it came from - Is this forum cluttered with junk? Absolutely not. I find Wyrd to be the premier site for knowing what is happening with new figures and ranges (no insult to other sites intended). In this section there is rarely any 'junk' - excepting perhaps this thread. All in all - a great job being done for those of us without the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malebolgia Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 I'd like to post a quick apology here for any "fuss" that got started because of this thread. It wasn't my intention to associate Wyrd with what was going on here and if that has happened then I apologize. This is simply where it has occurred and I have edited my original post on TGN Talk to reflect that. I hope that my updates on that topic have cleared up any confusion that may have resulted. I am sorry if this post has caused any inconvenience or trouble for anyone. Cheers, much appreciated. Malebolgia, I do wish you would drop by TGN Talk and discuss the topic there. I am actually interested in hearing what other people's opinions are and as I did emphasize in the topic there, I do actually think you are providing a value-added service here with the additional synthesis of sources you do. Sorry, won't do. When I see things like the following in the discussion on TGN: Quite frankly if I ever come near that guy I will punch him in the face... I loose all interest in joining the discussion. I know it's not your way of communicating and you don't allow it on your board. I'll continue the talk here, but not on TGN. And on a related note, as people might have seen in my last news updates, I have changed the format somewhat so it is more clear who said what and where. I think this will make it more clear and it isn't any fuss to do at all. I may not agree with all opinions, I am open to suggestions Cheers, Marijn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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