Bexley Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 I am writing a book on model scenery. It will primarily be geared towards gaming terrain, but I intend to cover a lot of diorama/realistic techniques as well. It will also most likely be self-published as an e-book, though I will look around for a hard copy publisher as well- it's a niche market, and a hard copy may not be feasible. As background, I have done model scenery professionally for many years. Originally for television (once upon a time, there was a very good national advertising market here in Minneapolis, and I have worked on spots for Target, Home Depot, Toro, Budweiser, and others) and more recently for the gaming industry at Fantasy Flight Games. Anyway. I was putting together an outline and roughing out some chapters, when I realized that I was looking at between 500 and 600 pages. Editing would certainly bring that down a bit, but even then, that's a big book. In all likelihood, I will be doing it as a series of books instead. While the overall price for all of them may end up greater, I think buying in small chunks would be more manageable for most people. Not to mention, doing it all in one go would take a very long time to produce. Which (finally) brings me around to my question(s): 1. Would you rather see one large comprehensive book, or a number of smaller ones? 2. How would you want to see things organized? From beginner projects through to advanced, or by subject, with each subject covering a variety of methods? Each has its merits, but which seems the most intuitive to you? Thank you (in advance) for your input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supervike Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 I think you'd be better served with a series of smaller, more manageable books. Each with a division of begginer, intermediate, advanced. I am very interested in building scenery...not just for gaming, but as a hobby in and of itself. I'd love to build a 'seedy' side of a downtown area. Just sounds fun. Anyhow, if you need a proofreader/guinea pig, don't hesitate to ask me. I have lots of interest in the subject, and would love to see a book designed around that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hinton Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 What I would be interested in is a series of books, with each book covering a certain terrain/building aspect. In each book, the projects would go from beginner to advanced to "are you freaking kidding me??!" One book could cover things like basic terrain (dirt, grass, etc) and move on up to more advanced things to create more complex and intricate. Of course, that's just my thoughts on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waghorn41 Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 Great idea, in specialised areas would be best I think. General terrain, buildings, bridges, woods etc. I'd offer to proof read (part of my last job) but don't speak the American version of English. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghrask Dragh Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 I think you'd be better served with a series of smaller, more manageable books. Each with a division of begginer, intermediate, advanced. I think that would be best, otherwise I think you would get people just ignoring certain books because they think they are not good enough or maybe even too good for the articles inside. The series of small books looks like the best option for me, again just to give everyone a chance to see them rather than just the people with enough space or time to download the huge version. I haven't thought too much about terrain, a couple of Blood Bowl pitches is as far as I have got, I have to say though I am looking forward to these books (or book) Good Luck, can't wait Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moavoamoatu Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 1. I usually prefer one large comprehensive book but if it's more than 200 or 300 pages you'd better go for a number of smaller ones? 2. From beginner projects through to advanced : it would be the introduction, also describing tools and materials used most of the time. By subject, with each subject covering a variety of methods : that's a good idea : project with a type of materials and what you can do with these materials. You could also have it by period from antique to modern and Sci-Fi buildings or sceneries. Nowadays we find many books (both paper and online ones) about miniatures and how to paint them but almost nothing about terrains and sceneries (at least in a paper edition as some websites have good tutorials). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wren Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 I think I'd prefer by subject. While I might read (or at least browse) a book like that from cover to cover when I first get it, later I'm going to want to be able to quickly find material related to what I'm trying to do at the time so would be looking for subjects like winter, desert, urban, forest, stuff like that. An index would be very handy if possible also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duende Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 Probably you're best bet is like others have said. Make smaller books but separate them by type.. like sci-fi settings, fantasy settings, modern, etc, and within each start with basics and work up to complex. Just my 2 cents.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabberwocky Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 I'd also chime in with the smaller book. I think a series of smaller books would help narrow the focus (sci-fi vs fantasy vs historical for example) as well as lower the cost. A 400 page book may end up being cost prohibitive for many folks, especially if they are only interested in a relatively small portion of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonherald Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 (edited) There is a risk with smaller volumes .... you mention it would take less time to do the smaller volumes than one larger one but from a publishers point of view they would probably need to see the whole set of volumes before deciding wether or not to support?? Also each volume you are effectively cutting out a portion of sales.. Terrain books are by there nature aimed at a Niche market .. small amount of people with a key interest .. releasing say sci fi , historical etc would mean you are making that potential customer base even smaller each time.. also each book really should be self cotained so each time you'd be having to cover everything from the ground up referring back to different volumes wouldn't fly..so covering beginner intermediate advanced each time would see you covering a lot of the same basics every time. the negatives out of the way I wish you the best of luck .. it is always nice to see somebody having a go at this kind of thing .. for me it may be a case of if it is done in smaller volumes then you do one master volume which covers all the techniques and materials from the beginning through to advanced .. This is then supported by add on volumes that cover specific projects and categories.. A bit like a core rules and supplement system.. the main volume from A-B covering the basic materials as well as practical examples in a kind of glossary and term description format.. Lots and lots of high quality pics... check in on forums for FAQs etc to get a feel then for example set up a style within it..so for example.. Foamboard... what is it,, what else is it known as, what are it's pluses what are it's minuses, where is it available , what tools do you need to use it , what things can be done with it.... etc. The supplements then have specific projects and examples with lists such as , what do yo need , difficulty level etc and go from there... Hope that makes sense...... Edited June 19, 2008 by demonherald Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bexley Posted June 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 (edited) I am very interested in building scenery...not just for gaming, but as a hobby in and of itself. I'd love to build a 'seedy' side of a downtown area. Just sounds fun. Agreed. When I was about 17, I wanted to get into model railroading. I was planning my layout and researching the area I wanted to model, but bailed on the project when I realized I'd have to actually learn about trains. I think I'd prefer by subject. While I might read (or at least browse) a book like that from cover to cover when I first get it, later I'm going to want to be able to quickly find material related to what I'm trying to do at the time so would be looking for subjects like winter, desert, urban, forest, stuff like that. An index would be very handy if possible also. Oh, absolutely. One of the most annoying things about some of the books I have on building terrain and such is the poor quality of the index. That would be a big advantage if I do it as an e-book: a hyperlinked index. you mention it would take less time to do the smaller volumes than one larger one but from a publishers point of view they would probably need to see the whole set of volumes before deciding wether or not to support?? Yeah, I'd thought of that today. At the very least, the first volume would have to cover a fairly large chunk, so that it wouldn't have to rely on future volumes. Also each volume you are effectively cutting out a portion of sales.. Terrain books are by there nature aimed at a Niche market .. small amount of people with a key interest .. releasing say sci fi , historical etc would mean you are making that potential customer base even smaller each time.. Yeah, I don't know that I would cut things down by era so much. Probably one large volume covering structures, and then cover techniques for all sorts of buildings and such, as well as different scales. I did a lot more pondering at a work today, after reading some of the suggestions here. (Which reminds me- thanks for all the responses!) I think what I will likely do is one semi-large book covering materials, scales, basic hills-trees-groundwork, and probably modular board construction. Then future volumes would cover more specific topics from intermediate to advanced, each crossing from gaming terrain territory into diorama/display techniques, and maybe even some film tricks. They'd be books like "trees/forests/countryside/water" which would essentially cover uncultivated temperate-climate terrain. Then maybe "structures and cities" to cover buildings of various sorts, both scratchbuilt and kit-bashed. Then probably something along the lines of "seasons and environments" which would be things like winter terrain, deserts, and other more exotic landscapes. At that point, if things are going well, I might consider covering a particular genre or scale in detail as well. Edited June 20, 2008 by Bexley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goblyn13 Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 another thing to consider is to set up a website and use that to cover the basic stuff and use the website to steer folks to the books or even use the site to put out individual project releases and offer it as quarterly dead tree version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonherald Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 it is the way of the modern world and a good way to break in and fine tune a product before committing to full pubishing..... access to the beginners and chargeable downloads for set projects...??? Also means it can be up and running as soon as things are written rather than waiting for the whole process... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supervike Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 Agreed. When I was about 17, I wanted to get into model railroading. I was planning my layout and researching the area I wanted to model, but bailed on the project when I realized I'd have to actually learn about trains. My Father-in-Law is really into model railroading. He has a fantastic layout, and I always wanted to do something like it as well, just without the damn choo choos. His is 40's-50's era. I would love to do a whole layout, set more in a modern time, but still keep it 'scale' for 28mm... Gaming would be great, but not a priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonherald Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 My Father-in-Law is really into model railroading. He has a fantastic layout, and I always wanted to do something like it as well, just without the damn choo choos. His is 40's-50's era. I would love to do a whole layout, set more in a modern time, but still keep it 'scale' for 28mm... Gaming would be great, but not a priority. the little one wants a thomas train set built but wants it to have dinosaurs and dragons..... can't wait to have more room.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bexley Posted June 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 another thing to consider is to set up a website and use that to cover the basic stuff and use the website to steer folks to the books or even use the site to put out individual project releases and offer it as quarterly dead tree version. There will indeed be a website. Well, sort of. Post Gen-Con, I am going to be launching a personal site to advertise a commission service, and I'll be selling the book there. Actually, the book came out of that process. I'm a decent enough painter, and could probably make a little money painting figures on commission. My real strength is in terrain and scenery, though, but my research has shown there isn't nearly the market for that. People will pay for a painted army, but will just as soon play with that army on makeshift terrain, or at their local game store. People who really want really nice terrain of their own are much more likely to want to make it themselves. The book is a way to tap into that, as well as put out a really good book on scenery that is geared towards gaming. GW has done books in the past, but they've been pretty basic. There are hundreds of scenery books out there, but most are geared towards model railroading or dioramas. They have lots of good stuff, but much of it is too fragile for any kind of frequent gaming. it is the way of the modern world and a good way to break in and fine tune a product before committing to full pubishing..... access to the beginners and chargeable downloads for set projects...??? Also means it can be up and running as soon as things are written rather than waiting for the whole process... I have access to a good copy editor with a lot of gaming experience, so fine tuning it shouldn't be a major task. At least, if he wants me to paint his Blood Bowl team for him. I had thought of sort of a "subscription service" or possibly doing it in small installments and charging individually for them, but I don't know that that would be the right way to go. For one, this is being done mostly in my off-work time, and we all know how life can intrude on that. I don't want to set myself on a schedule that I may not be able to keep to. (See also: Miniature Mentor) Selling it as a full book means that once you've put money down, you immediately get what you bought with out a "promise" of more to come later. There probably will be sample chapters/excerpts for free. E-books are not always worth the money, so an example of the kind of content you'd be paying for is a must. Though, our little market does run very well on word-of-mouth. (Again, see also: Miniature Mentor.) I have been considering sort of a hybrid of that, though. I would set up a private part of the website. You'd get a year of (or possibly permanent) access with the purchase of any of the books. The "members" area would contain forums and be regularly updated with articles featuring specific projects, to complement the information in the books. After that first year (unless, as I said, I made the with-purchase access permanent), or if you didn't buy a book, there'd be a yearly fee. It'd be a reasonable amount- I'm thinking $10 USD, though that's off the top of my head, and may be unrealistic in light of bandwidth and hosting costs. The downside, though, would again be having to consistently come up with regular content. Of course, if this proves successful enough that I could make it my primary job, that wouldn't be an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bexley Posted June 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 My Father-in-Law is really into model railroading. He has a fantastic layout, and I always wanted to do something like it as well, just without the damn choo choos. His is 40's-50's era. I would love to do a whole layout, set more in a modern time, but still keep it 'scale' for 28mm... Gaming would be great, but not a priority. I know the feeling. That's really how I got into miniatures and gaming in the first place- I had a friend who tried to get me into Car Wars. Designing cars was neat, but pushing around little bits of cardboard wasn't so fun. Then he got the bright idea to multiply the scale by three and use Matchbox cars. I was hooked, and as is the case currently, spent far more time painting cars and building arenas than actually playing the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bexley Posted June 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 Great idea, in specialised areas would be best I think. General terrain, buildings, bridges, woods etc. I'd offer to proof read (part of my last job) but don't speak the American version of English. I have a friend who is a copy editor, so that's not a problem. I might still take you up on it, though- a lot of products go by different names in Europe (especially when the product is mostly known by a brand name- like Future floor polish, which goes by Klear floor polish elsewhere) so having someone take a look and point out which products are unavailable or sold by a different name would be helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duzzdan Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 This sounds really cool. The only terrain of yours I've seen were the demo boards you did up for Mutant Chronicles at Gencon last year. Very impressive stuff, would love to see more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bexley Posted June 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 (edited) Hmm... http://www.bexlarium.com/terrain.htm This is a quick and dirty gallery I threw together for... reasons I'm not sure I can reveal publicly yet. (Ew. Looking at it work, I realize I really need to buy a good CRT monitor at home. Color correcting photos on a laptop just doesn't work.) (Also: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/at-43/article-5.html http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/at-43/article-6.html These both show some better pictures of the AT-43 stuff.) Edited June 20, 2008 by Bexley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duzzdan Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 Good stuff. I think the close up one of the barbed wire and sandbags was one I took at Gencon. I like all the little details on the confrontation board, really makes it come alive. The image on your welcome page touched me somewhere deep inside.....and not in a good way :eek: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bexley Posted June 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 Heh. Yeah. There used to be a weblog there, but it moved. I left a present behind for anybody who stumbles onto the place. I mostly just use it now as storage space fro photos and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supervike Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 I love that Grue picture!!! The AT-43 stuff is great....and very inspiring. I've got to give some of this stuff a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonherald Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 (Ew. Looking at it work, I realize I really need to buy a good CRT monitor at home. Color correcting photos on a laptop just doesn't work.)[url=http://] I have exactly the same prob ...looked at some of my pics on my brothers pc a few weeks back and thought....shiiit.....I guess the equipment outlay will be worth it and is pretty much essential.. realising how far off some of my pics are has me currently looking at a new system... got a new camera and lights now just need a decent screen to edit etc on....all good fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty1001 Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 Just make sure your monitor and images are set to sRGB and as long you are using a colour corrected browser (I.E. 7, Safari and the new Firefox 3 are) you will see images perfectly correct on the web. It's an issue a lot of photographers have will displaying on the web, and that is meant to be the best set up for web image viewing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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