Maximum Hand Size and Fading

[CustardBomb]

We ran into a rules debate when Molly used lost knowledge to draw 2 cards gpi ng over the maximum hand size. After the action resolves Molly's player is obligated to discard down to the maximum hand size. 

 

Does this sound as Molly discarding the card (thereby triggering Fading) or not? 

 

We could see both interpretations from this wording in the rulebook under the control hand section. (Pg13 in the app) 

 

But could find no other ruling. 

[solkan]

35 minutes ago, CustardBomb said:

Does this sound as Molly discarding the card (thereby triggering Fading) or not? 

Fading (and the similar abilities on her other keyword models) is triggered by "After this model discards a card".

In the Control Hand rules, the discard is done by the player, not the model resolving the current action or ability that caused the discard.

That creates a difference between the Control Hand rules, and various effects in the game.

For example, Chiyo Hamasaki's Misinformation action says "Target reveals its Control Hand and discards up to two cards of this model's choice."  Likwise, Youko Hamasaki's Blackmail which says "Target may discard up to two cards."  That's specifying that the model is discarding cards.  Yeah, the player controlling that model is the agent that actually carries out the card discard, but as far as the game is concerned, but that's just coincidental implementation detail of the model discarding a card.

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

4 hours ago, solkan said:

Fading (and the similar abilities on her other keyword models) is triggered by "After this model discards a card".

In the Control Hand rules, the discard is done by the player, not the model resolving the current action or ability that caused the discard.

That creates a difference between the Control Hand rules, and various effects in the game.

For example, Chiyo Hamasaki's Misinformation action says "Target reveals its Control Hand and discards up to two cards of this model's choice."  Likwise, Youko Hamasaki's Blackmail which says "Target may discard up to two cards."  That's specifying that the model is discarding cards.  Yeah, the player controlling that model is the agent that actually carries out the card discard, but as far as the game is concerned, but that's just coincidental implementation detail of the model discarding a card.

 

Another important area that this can come up is Obey and similar effects.

If you obey a model and make it discard a card, the person controlling it discards (not the owner of the model).