Tide pool. Terrain or Marker? and 3+2= 4 or 3?

[Mikael H]

Hello, 

I have two questions regarding Tide pools. Input appreciated.

1) Are the tide pools created by the gibbering hordes allegiance ability/storm siren/heavy rain Markers? The reason i ask is that in the base rules it says:

Quote

MARKERS
Sometimes, the game will require a Marker to be
placed on the board. Most Markers have a type, such
as a Portal Marker or a Tide Pool Marker. Actions
and Abilities can only interact with a Marker if they
specifically note that they do. Markers may not
be placed touching another Marker unless a rule
specifically allows it.

....

CREATE
Certain Actions and Abilities can create Terrain.
If the word Create is used, this means a brand new
terrain piece is added to the board, with size and rules
dictated by the Action or Ability that created it. The
Created Terrain piece lasts until the end of the game
and counts as Friendly to the Company that Created
it. When it is added to the board, Created Terrain
cannot touch any other Terrain.

However, as far as i can tell not a single card can create "Tide Pool Markers". All the cards create "Tide Pool terrain pieces". The above part of the rule book seem to indicate that the intent was for these to be markers, but as written they are not. This is very relevant since while terrain does not influence the placement of most things, markers however, do. If a tide pool terrain piece is a marker it would create sometimes huge exclusion zones where other markers can not be placed, for example a zone over 20" wide where no burning man Portal Markers can be placed. It would also prevent the placement of some objective markers. 

In other words RAI seems to be its a marker, but if is, its seems to create rather silly situations sometimes. Not sure which is best.

2) When a storm siren is in glory a tide pool is both Difficult (Hazardous 2 when Rush:ed trough) and Hazardous 3. What happens if an enemy unit rushes trough the pool? does it suffer a str 3 hit or a str 4 hit? The rules make it pretty clear that the intent is for multiple hazardous to partially stack together for one hit rather than cause two. However the phrasing seems to assume each terrain piece only has one hazardous value and does not mention what happens if the same terrain piece has more than one. 
 

Quote

Hazardous #: All Hazardous terrain comes
with a value (such as Hazardous 2). If a
Fireteam starts its Activation in base contact
with one or more pieces of Hazardous terrain,
it takes a Hit with Strength equal to the
highest Hazardous value of those terrain pieces.
Similarly, if a Fireteam moves through one or
more pieces of Hazardous Terrain, it takes a Hit
with Strength equal to the highest Hazardous
value of those terrain pieces. In either case, the
Hit gains +1 Strength for each additional piece
of Hazardous terrain the Fireteam started in or
moved through, as appropriate. Once a piece
of Hazardous terrain has caused or modified
the Strength of a Hit, it does not affect that
Fireteam for the rest of its Activation.

RAW i would say its a str 3 hit, however this is a bit counter-intuitive as Difficult has no effect and begs the question why the Storm siren does not simply state "...replaces Difficult with Hazardous 3". 

[retnab]

1) AFAIK they're terrain only but the marker example does mess with that, think we have to wait for an FAQ to clarify

2) Hazardous 3.  It would be 4 if it was multiple terrain pieces, but as it's the single piece it just uses the highest instance available

[solkan]

1.   

Quote

Tide Pools: During Scouting, Create two 120mm Concealing [Low], Difficult Tide Pool terrain pieces on the board, not in either deployment zone.

Tide Pools and Poison Clouds both say "120mm ... terrain piece" while Portal Markers are specified as "50mm Portal Markers".

Note that Tide Pools and Poison Clouds are created during the activation phase as well as during the Scouting phase.

1 hour ago, Mikael H said:

The above part of the rule book seem to indicate that the intent was for these to be markers, but as written they are not.

Once upon a time Tide Pools were Tide Pool Markers (which was probably convenient at the time convenient because you're putting this 120mm marker shaped piece of cardboard on the table for them) but then for various reasons all of the cards got changed.  Both Objective Markers and additional Tide Pools and Poison Clouds get created during the game, as do Portal Markers.  (Disclaimer:  I wasn't in the TOS beta.  But I'd bet that the obvious negative play scenario is what happened.)

As specified on the cards, no, they aren't currently markers.  I'm pretty sure you can point to scenarios like Set Traps for the reason why Tide Pool and Poison Cloud are specified on the cards as terrain pieces and not Markers.

2.  Look at the Hazardous terrain rules broken down in sections:

Quote

All Hazardous terrain comes with a value (such as Hazardous 2). If a Fireteam starts its Activation in base contact with one or more pieces of Hazardous terrain, it takes a Hit with Strength equal to the highest Hazardous value of those terrain pieces.  Similarly, if a Fireteam moves through one or more pieces of Hazardous Terrain, it takes a Hit with Strength equal to the highest Hazardous value of those terrain pieces.

So you've got a piece of terrain that's both Hazardous 2 because the Difficult terrain rule and Hazardous 3 due to the Stormsiren's rule.  The second sentence tells you to use the 3 instead of the 2.

The next two sentences:

Quote

In either case, the Hit gains +1 Strength for each additional piece of Hazardous terrain the Fireteam started in or moved through, as appropriate. Once a piece of Hazardous terrain has caused or modified the Strength of a Hit, it does not affect that Fireteam for the rest of its Activation.

A piece of terrain that is both Difficult and Hazardous 3 doesn't become two terrain pieces.  So if you Rush through a single Difficult, Hazardous 3 terrain piece, it's a strength 3 hit.

3.  The answer to your begged question has everything to do with publishing a rulebook on schedule.  But we're all currently patiently waiting for inevitable release FAQ/Errata to deal with various issues like the missing numeric value on one of Abyssinia's Poison Cloud effects.

 

[Pergli]

Definitely need an FAQ on Marker vs Piece of Terrain on those. I think the intent is for them to be both but it's not listed that way in the actual cards. Same with poison fields or mines which means it can generate some absurd situations.