Guild Second at Gencon

[LunarSol]

6 hours ago, Monster said:

Can you give any tips on Sonnia? I read some people don’t even take a totem when running her. How did she do for you at GenCon?

Sonnia is pretty great, but needs a few things to really push her over the top.

1. Counterspell (not ALWAYS necessary, but a pretty trivial addition for the power)
2. Flame Walls (made better by Malifaux Child)
3. to damage (generally from Papa Loco)
4. Some way to escape combat (Francisco or Phiona generally)

As long as she's got those things, she's a terror.

[4thstringer]

5 hours ago, Tors said:

Probably the same people, who find the Cherub lacking. 

The difference there is that the Puke snake is good enough to at least make it a comparison (I still prefer the Cherub, but I rarely play lilith so I am probably wrong).  The Gov's proxy on the other hand might as well not exist.

[Rionnay]

So I take the student (because Duncan convience me) but mainly the fast for a turn on sonnia is huge. The ability to make an extra cast9 shot is huge. Also the flame gets deployed down the table to deny models like nekima from using soul stones. The ability to drop the female in melee with multiple models is also pretty cool forcing your opponent to waste AP to kill it. 

[Trample]

54 minutes ago, Rionnay said:

So I take the student (because Duncan convience me) but mainly the fast for a turn on sonnia is huge. The ability to make an extra cast9 shot is huge. Also the flame gets deployed down the table to deny models like nekima from using soul stones. The ability to drop the female in melee with multiple models is also pretty cool forcing your opponent to waste AP to kill it. 

Are you generally dropping the flame round one? If so, you've got 5 stones for 1 round of fast? That extra cast round one is pretty nice, but with the child you save 2ss and can throw up an extra wall to keep Sonnia safe. 

 

[Ludvig]

On 8/10/2018 at 8:35 PM, 4thstringer said:

The difference there is that the Puke snake is good enough to at least make it a comparison (I still prefer the Cherub, but I rarely play lilith so I am probably wrong).  The Gov's proxy on the other hand might as well not exist.

I also go for the cherub a lot of the time. Just making Lilith hazardous and allowing some free marker drops that you can eat with Malifaux provides on a hench is pretty great value to me. Sometimes I even hit stuff with it or make them cheat to avoid the slow so it's almost a discard. Facing guild I often drop half my hand anyways to auatringers and yhralla so why overcycle and discard good cards? There are pools where nullify really shines though so it's definitely a choice at least.

[Rionnay]

On ‎8‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 10:49 PM, Trample said:

Are you generally dropping the flame round one? If so, you've got 5 stones for 1 round of fast? That extra cast round one is pretty nice, but with the child you save 2ss and can throw up an extra wall to keep Sonnia safe. 

 

If you create a flame make sure you are subtracting the cost of the flame from that 5ss cost for the student. Also if you create the flame and deny them from using 1-2 stones that's an additional 1-2 stones you can factor into your costing which possibly allowed you to trade into a henchmen or master. SO you're looking at 5ss student- 3ss flame- 1-2 stones for prevention. You break about even but have a higher chance of netting an enemy model.

[Ludvig]

19 hours ago, Rionnay said:

If you create a flame make sure you are subtracting the cost of the flame from that 5ss cost for the student. Also if you create the flame and deny them from using 1-2 stones that's an additional 1-2 stones you can factor into your costing which possibly allowed you to trade into a henchmen or master. SO you're looking at 5ss student- 3ss flame- 1-2 stones for prevention. You break about even but have a higher chance of netting an enemy model.

Why would you subtract the flame's cost? No one ever hires the flame so the option is hirethe student and kill it by summoning the flame or hire no totem and summon the flame in the exact same place without killing off 5ss of your own models.

The question is more like: will that extra ap turn one let you kill two-three models that would be left on a couple of wounds if you weren't fast. In the games where that happens and you kill 10+ ss then the 5ss investment was super worth it. If you still leave enemu models alive and they get to do damage that turn you probably wasted points. I think it is hard to say before yiu see the enemy crew and deployment which will be better. Maybe you draw a bad hand turn 1 and that last ap ends up missing anyway, was it really worth it? I see it as a big gamble that can pay of spectacularly or leave you down a bunch of stones 

[Rionnay]

On ‎8‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 4:35 AM, Ludvig said:

Why would you subtract the flame's cost? No one ever hires the flame so the option is hirethe student and kill it by summoning the flame or hire no totem and summon the flame in the exact same place without killing off 5ss of your own models.

The question is more like: will that extra ap turn one let you kill two-three models that would be left on a couple of wounds if you weren't fast. In the games where that happens and you kill 10+ ss then the 5ss investment was super worth it. If you still leave enemu models alive and they get to do damage that turn you probably wasted points. I think it is hard to say before yiu see the enemy crew and deployment which will be better. Maybe you draw a bad hand turn 1 and that last ap ends up missing anyway, was it really worth it? I see it as a big gamble that can pay of spectacularly or leave you down a bunch of stones 

The nice thing about sonnia is she can use even a 6-7 or some of those "bad cards" to get blasts out. You just need a high card to hit and with the cast9 turn 1 it's fairly easy to make that happen. The flame is terrible when purchased because it never does anything. If you can summon it and use its demise or apply one additional burning that's incredibly helpful. It takes some of those models that had one or two wounds left and threatens them if they choose to kill the flame. While the flame is bad on your side of the board he begins to become useful on the opponents side. The dampening bubble is often enough to encourage the opponent to kill him soaking up even more AP.

[Ludvig]

@Rionnay

I totally agree with you on the usefulness of the flame. Just not sure about the student, I usually have half a list of cheerleaders for Sonnia as it is.

I would imagine there are plenty of scenarios where that last attack does make a huge difference but you still spent 5ss on one master ap. There are likely several situations where it ends up not really worth it. A Hamelin rat spam that's still in deployment and immune to blast damage when you are done activating or a bunch of Freikorps strike me as pretty annoying matchups. Yasinori in McCabe, Scion of the Viks or a few guild alpha lists could potentially also starve you of targets turn one while threatening Sonnia.

[4thstringer]

1 hour ago, Ludvig said:

@Rionnay

I totally agree with you on the usefulness of the flame. Just not sure about the student, I usually have half a list of cheerleaders for Sonnia as it is.

I would imagine there are plenty of scenarios where that last attack does make a huge difference but you still spent 5ss on one master ap. There are likely several situations where it ends up not really worth it. A Hamelin rat spam that's still in deployment and immune to blast damage when you are done activating or a bunch of Freikorps strike me as pretty annoying matchups. Yasinori in McCabe, Scion of the Viks or a few guild alpha lists could potentially also starve you of targets turn one while threatening Sonnia.

I don't know about the rats, but if I've gotten my opponent to play a bunch of fk I feel like I've already gotten value.  Unless the engineer has been a massive buff they just aren't very good generally