Help with a Guild crew to break my 0-10 Streak

[redmageshat]

Hi all, I'm hoping the forums can help me break out of my aweful losing streak.  I'm still pretty new to the game with about a dozen games in, and I just can't stop getting absolutely stomped.  I've got a game tonight, and I'm hoping to finally give my opponent a game, as opposed to just getting beaten on while they go through the motions.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around how to think about crew building, especially planning to drop Schemes.

My opponent will be playing Arcanists, and our pool is:
Guard the Stash, Leave your Mark, Show of Force, Undercover Entourage, Hidden Trap, and Dig Their Graves.

My favorite Master is Perdita, and I'm planning on playing her, though I can see where in this pool McCabe or even Lady J may be better since it's middle of the table heavy.  But again, I have an unhealthy obsession with Perdita, so I'm gonna start there.

So with that pool, and wanting to play Dita my first thought is to take Show of Force.  I'm going to take Frank with Wade In anyway, and The Judge with, I think, Leadlined Coat since he's a decent pain to kill for a Guild model (though 11 SS is a tough pill to swallow).  Then maybe Aubela with Hermanos De Armas for more pulls.  Problem is thats a ton of SS leaving only 15SS to fill out the crew with.  I could take an Austringer to try to Deliver Orders to drop markers for Dig Their Graves maybe, or a Watcher and try and sneak into the back field and play for Leave Your Mark.  Or I could say screw it, put Plant Evidence on Frank and The Judge, take the Austringer, and hope for a good place to drop Hidden Trap at the end of the game.  See this is where I just don't know, especially since its based off of a really expensive gamble for Guard the Stash and Show of Force.  Maybe just toss in a Guild Pathfinder since you can pretty reliably know where to put Traps.

TDLR:

For the pool: Guard the Stash, Leave your Mark, Show of Force, Undercover Entourage, Hidden Trap, and Dig Their Graves. I'm thinking of taking from the pool Show of Force and Leave your Mark with this crew:
Perdita
-Trick Shot
-Fast Draw in Malifaux
-Aura Ancestral
Francisco
-Wade in
The Judge
-Lead lined Coat
Abuela
-Hermanos De Armas
Enslaved Nephilim
Guild Austringer
Guild Pathfinder

Any advice from more seasoned players would be great.  I am willing to switch Masters, but I don't have McMourning, Lucious, or Nellie or any of the stuff from their Boxes.

[4thstringer]

Ok, first thing that stuck out to me is that LLC is a complete waste of 2 ss.  Don't even bother with it.  Other than that, your list isn't horrible.  I'd replace that hidden trap with a couple instances of debt to the guild.  I usually don't put hermanos on Abuela, as I almost always have a better use for her (0)

Also, forget hidden trap.  It is too easy to dodge, though you might want to fake it if you don't have anything better to do with a model and also have undercover entourage.  

If you can, I'd trade the austringer and pathfinder for monster hunters.  They are really powerful.  If not, I would switch out one austringer for the brutal effigy.  It does well with perdita and is a lot to get rid of for 4 points.

I like the judge, but if you have the jury, I would switch in for her.  She works really nicely with Perdita.  

I like dig their graves in this pool, as it is easy to predict the area in which your opponent's models will be. Leave your mark would be ok if you switched in for a watcher, but a lot of arcanist's have no problem blocking that.

In what would be a more controversial pick, I would put shooting cans on perdita instead of aura ancestral.  I don't find AA useful against arcanists usually, and shooting LYM or Dig markers off the board could block your opponent's points.

 

Generally though, you list building alone wasn't bad enough that I would expect a 0-10 run.  What is happening in your games when you play?  Is your opponent playing nothing but Sandeep?  Are you losing models too fast?  Are you feeling like you just can't flip high enough? 

 

 

[DeadManTalking]

Too bad you don't have Nellie, that's a great scenario for her. Even just to have access to Phiona who makes Dig a whole lot easier. Guild got much better at Show of Force with A Debt to the Guild. You may want to consider that on the judge instead of Lead. Abuela isnt bad, but I still havent fully figured her out so I cant comment on her. Austringers are good, but I think one is fine. Id pick up the Brutal Effigy because it's just a super good cheap activation and a watcher if you have one. In terms of schemes, show of force and dig are perfectly fine. You could also go with undercover entourage with Dita. Shes not easy to put down and last turn she could just walk to your opponents deployment from the middle of the board

[Fazza92]

Why Judge against arcanists?

I think Judge is a good model,but I play he only against Resser,and he need “a debt to the guild and no other upgrades.

Perdita play nice with Hunter,Watcher and brutal effigy.Sometimes with Phiona and Peacekeeper.

Aura Ancestral against Arcanist is good only against Marcus,you can survive without it.Abuela has 2 excellent 0 actions,she don’t want Hermanos.

You need at least 8 models to compete with other faction...so you need at least 2 models that costs 4 Ss(hounds,Watcher,effigy,reporter) that can do scheme easily.

 

[keget]

38 minutes ago, Fazza92 said:

Why Judge against arcanists?

You need at least 8 models to compete with other faction...so you need at least 2 models that costs 4 Ss(hounds,Watcher,effigy,reporter) that can do scheme easily.

 

8 models is a min.  Model count is king in GG2017.  Also while what crew you take can lose you a game at the start, it never lets you win.  Play for points; at the end of the game ask your opponent for what you could have done different to get more points.  The post game is where you can really learn.  Good luck, let us know how it goes.

 

Thanks,

Steven

[Ludvig]

I'd stay away from hidden trap and entourage.

Show of force combos great with the strategy and you can so it by having Francisco and Judge with debt and some other upgrade on them. If you are limited on models you could do Santiago with some cheap upgrade like hair trigger or tormenta di plomo or hermanos. He is decently tough for his stones and should be able to contribute in the center, if they engage him you should be able to use Francisco to push him out.

Dig their graves is good since you will want to kill enemies near those markers. The effigy has accomplice which is very good for that scheme. Put its condition on Perdita, place a marker where you are about to kill something and accomplice into Perdita or Francisco. 

Leave your mark is a good option if they don't have malifaux raptors. If they have those you can probably forget it. 

 

Perdita doesn't need to stay at range. She gets a extra ram in close combat and if you gave her df/wp 9 with Francisco she should hold out decently. I'm sceptical about the shooting cans upgrade, Perdita will very likely activate before they put down their scheme markers each turn.

Cheap activations will help with the marker schemes, a watcher and the effigy or three guild hounds should get you markers and possibly deny theirs while giving you a few cheap activations.

[redmageshat]

Thanks guys, some good food for thought.

I definitely wish I had Field Reporters or Monster Hunters, and I do agree with Abuela having better 0's.  Based on my discussions on AWP I'm gonna lean into Show of Force and Dig Their Graves and retool for that I think.  I like the Judge just because he's got some good defensive abilities for sitting near the stash markers, and I like the idea of Abuela marrying him off so Dita can relocate to him without his having to pull her in on his own.  I'm still thinking Frank and The Judge +Dita for holding the middle, and then using Abuela's points to get in a Watcher/Effigy and switch the Pathfinder maybe to a Deathmarshal for Finish the Job in the middle for a marker for Dig their Graves.

[redmageshat]

4 hours ago, 4thstringer said:

Generally though, you list building alone wasn't bad enough that I would expect a 0-10 run.  What is happening in your games when you play?  Is your opponent playing nothing but Sandeep?  Are you losing models too fast?  Are you feeling like you just can't flip high enough? 

 

 

I've put a lot more thought into this list than a lot of my previous ones honestly.  But my biggest problem are Turn 1-2 losses that snowball super hard into major losses.  I'm not aware of just how far a lot of things in Malifaux can reach out and touch you from.  From Ophilia/Francious flinging across the table and chain activating into me, to Yasunori getting pushed + Fast from an Emissary and flying into me, or Yan-Lo + Izamu Lightning Dancing me into murder town.  Basically I can't keep my crew alive long enough to play the game.

[keget]

It is hard (if not impossible) to stop some of those in your face turn 1 games (wait till you see Viks), but the key is to make them lose more than you do.  That is often why more activations are needed as well.  That way you can still have a heavy hitter go after they launch their attack.  Also try and force them to attack something less important.  Use your smaller guys to block charges against your better guys.  If you lose 4-6 stone model and then you counter attack their Yasunori with your master and kill it, you win that trade.

Good Luck,

Steven

[4thstringer]

3 hours ago, redmageshat said:

I've put a lot more thought into this list than a lot of my previous ones honestly.  But my biggest problem are Turn 1-2 losses that snowball super hard into major losses.  I'm not aware of just how far a lot of things in Malifaux can reach out and touch you from.  From Ophilia/Francious flinging across the table and chain activating into me, to Yasunori getting pushed + Fast from an Emissary and flying into me, or Yan-Lo + Izamu Lightning Dancing me into murder town.  Basically I can't keep my crew alive long enough to play the game.

Alpha strike lists only leave you with a few options.   If you are a newbie and you're opponents are just repeatedly hammering you with alpha styles,  it can be really difficult.   

My solutions to those lists is often to try to beat them to the punch or to make a list that can absorb it.   Dita can do some of that, but I'm better at it with nellie, Sonnia,  or Hoffman.  

I'm curious,  have you tried waiting for them to move their alpha model forward,  and then used the pathfinder to tie the model down with a trap?  That might dull that initial push.

 

[redmageshat]

I just got the Pathfinder, he's still in the box actually.

[Ludvig]

You need to out-activate to counter alpha strikes. It's an unfortunate side effect of the activation system. 

[4thstringer]

Which is why I like nellie for it. 

[DeadManTalking]

That or alpha strike faster/harder. Sometimes it's better to deny the alpha by doing your own and depending on the alpha you're facing, removing one model can ruin the whole design. Perdita is really good at deleting a model per turn and can get to where she needs to quite easily. You may have issues with killing a master, but henchmen are definitely killable and anything below that hardly stands a chance. 

[4thstringer]

8 minutes ago, ConfuciuSay said:

That or alpha strike faster/harder. Sometimes it's better to deny the alpha by doing your own and depending on the alpha you're facing, removing one model can ruin the whole design. Perdita is really good at deleting a model per turn and can get to where she needs to quite easily. You may have issues with killing a master, but henchmen are definitely killable and anything below that hardly stands a chance. 

Even a hench can be tough once SS are involved (even with vengeance bullet).  Something like Yas can be hard to take down in a Dita activation too.

[DeadManTalking]

True, but if Frank is nearby which he probably should be, you can always go with Frank and charge whatever big target you want dead then companion into Dita. Thats a dead Yasanori right there. I understand he has a 10" charge and your opponent can try to keep him or whatever other target you're going after at a distance. With alpha strike lists its kind of a flip of the coin. Who does their shtick first and most successfully. In my meta any outcast player that plays viks either wins big or lose big top of turn 2.

[redmageshat]

10 minutes ago, ConfuciuSay said:

True, but if Frank is nearby which he probably should be, you can always go with Frank and charge whatever big target you want dead then companion into Dita. Thats a dead Yasanori right there. I understand he has a 10" charge and your opponent can try to keep him or whatever other target you're going after at a distance. With alpha strike lists its kind of a flip of the coin. Who does their shtick first and most successfully. In my meta any outcast player that plays viks either wins big or lose big top of turn 2.

You say that, but when Yasunori can transfer one of the bigger hits over to a Terracotta warrior, then discard to totally negate the damage, and then cheat in a few decent cards to make a few misses, you're still gonna be staring down a Yasunori who's gonna kill Frank next turn.  Yasunori isn't TOO bad by himself, 10T's other synergies make him a nightmare though.

 

[redmageshat]

Thanks for all the tips everyone.  I've had to push my game out due to work, but I'll post up how it went next week, or if I'm lucky enough to get the game in, I'll post later this week.

[DeadManTalking]

There's always going to be counter play, but with both Frank and Perdita being combat 7 the odds are in their favor.

[FinalForm]

There are lots of answers above, I will deliver my pack of thoughts.

switch judge for emissary or PK
switch pathfinder for brutal effigy for healing/card draw or nino with rapid fire(nino with rapid fire is a beast and he disrupts enemies plans alot).

Enjoy winning.

[Ludvig]

2 hours ago, ConfuciuSay said:

True, but if Frank is nearby which he probably should be, you can always go with Frank and charge whatever big target you want dead then companion into Dita. Thats a dead Yasanori right there. I understand he has a 10" charge and your opponent can try to keep him or whatever other target you're going after at a distance. With alpha strike lists its kind of a flip of the coin. Who does their shtick first and most successfully. In my meta any outcast player that plays viks either wins big or lose big top of turn 2.

Franc can't get very far on turn 1. Yas could push up to outside of his reach behind a piece of terrain to prevent Perdita drawing LoS and nimble into/around the terrain to get LoS and reach for the charge. I think it's really hard to get the drop on it. Perdita can blunt some other alphas by alphaing back but you probably cannot count on Francisco also having reach.