Crafting rules

[Jinxs]

Hi I just want to check what or where are the rules for construct points and crafting?

[sycorax]

Crafting general items is easy. If it's a simple build then no need to flip so long as there is plenty of in-game time to build it. The item just costs 1/4 of the price that the inventory lists it as. 

 

Construct building rules are near the end of the new core book. Between magic and the bestiary. 

[Hulumulu]

Hey everybody, here is just a (not so) brief question about selling constructs (and maybe crafted equipment in general).

The Tinkerer in my group decided to build a construct (worth 25§), wants to sell it for the fourfold value (roughly; as described on p. 311 in the Core Rules) and plans to use the earned Scrip to build a new Construct for "private use" (worth approx. 70§, height 4, probably armed to the teeth and what not).

While I like the basic idea, I’m afraid that this approach is just too easy and may lead to almost unlimited financial resources in the long run. I don’t want to curtail the Fated’s actions or prohibit any of their ideas; but I don’t want them to basically earn infinite Scrip neither. Since they are working for / employed by the Union in our current campaign, I thought of the following complications to prevent "easy Scrip" when selling constructs:

Selling the construct takes time: The Fated cannot just "convert" the construct into cash; it has to be inspected by Union steamfitters (i.e. quality assessment) and the Union needs to find a buyer – which may take days or even weeks. What if the Union decides to use it for itself, however?

Paperwork and taxes: Since the Fated are members of the Union, they do not gain the full market price for selling the construct, but have to pay a fair amount of charges (e.g. fees for the inspection, commissions, interest to the Union etc.).

Potential risks and long-term consequences (if the Fated should decide to skip inspections and paperwork, for example): A few weeks after selling the construct, it malfunctions and manages to kill some people. Now the Fated have to get out of this mess (which may be the subject of a whole adventure).

Or do you think that I overthink this whole thing and should just roll with it? While possessing a giant construct (or arming the whole group by crafting the entire equipment) undoubtedly has its benefits (combat-wise), it is unlikely that the Fated will be able to drag it along the whole time (good luck getting it into Malifaux or Ridley, for example…).

How would you deal with that sort of situation as a FM? Any advices? Thanks in advance!

[EnternalVoid]

So your Tinker is good at building stuff... but can they talk the talk and walk the walk when it comes to selling it?

What I am saying is the Bartering skill, just cause you can possible sell it for 4x the cost does not mean someone is not going to haggle with you over it.  I imagine the people that are interested in buying constructs often are people that have had the time and experience to be good at bartering as well and if they are not good at bartering they often have someone in their employment that handles the task.  And something like the union has the ability to walk away from any negotiation and just have another engineer build it if you don't give them the price cuts they want, after all they have the people to know what something like that would cost to make and what sort of mark up you are trying to pull. 

This also raises another thing, the Union has plenty of engineers and steamfitters among them and they might even have people who's job is to do just that and your tinker is stepping on toes *your Tinkerer might have another duty as an agent for jobs, not crafting*.   I am pretty sure if worked in an office that you were consider a member of security for and you then go and try to do the same job as the sales department, people would not be quick to take you up on any deals.  I doubt the Union every pays 4x the cost for their constructs, instead I imagine the 4x cost is on the open market to those that do not have the resources like the Union.  Like a shipping company owner *not tied to Guild or Union* wanting some sort of construct to help haul boxes, or for security, would be those that would have to pay the 4x price after negotiations.  And most of those people I suspect would either be custom work *they tell you what they want and you build it* or you need to have floor models to show off to attract the potential customers.

That is how I would handle it, Union would have some tough negotiations if you try to sell constructs to them, likely at best with a fairly difficult Barter flip you can sell for 2x but that is only if it is something they even want *they have a lot of constructs already*.  Failing the Barter flip might only get you a 10%-20% mark up.  Maybe 25%.  If they go to open market then it becomes more of you building stuff on request *the customer dictates what you build* or you are forced to make a business of it and have models you can show off to attract the potential sales.  And of course Negotiations for those are often done before hand so contracts might get involved *possible Bureaucracy or Literacy challenges in addition to Bartering*.

Often with people I play with sometimes someone gets burned trying to run a side business when they lack the actual skills to sell what they want to offload.  Because of that they often have to pull in one of their buddies that have the necessary skills, that starts to split some of the profit between the players as well if they are needed to make the plan work.

[solkan]

2 hours ago, Hulumulu said:

Hey everybody, here is just a (not so) brief question about selling constructs (and maybe crafted equipment in general).

The Tinkerer in my group decided to build a construct (worth 25§), wants to sell it for the fourfold value (roughly; as described on p. 311 in the Core Rules) and plans to use the earned Scrip to build a new Construct for "private use" (worth approx. 70§, height 4, probably armed to the teeth and what not).

While I like the basic idea, I’m afraid that this approach is just too easy and may lead to almost unlimited financial resources in the long run. I don’t want to curtail the Fated’s actions or prohibit any of their ideas; but I don’t want them to basically earn infinite Scrip neither. Since they are working for / employed by the Union in our current campaign, I thought of the following complications to prevent "easy Scrip" when selling constructs:

Private business is a recipe for producing infinite, unlimited money that has a huge failure rate.  

If the player wants to sell their construct, you have to make them answer the question "How, where, and when, are you going to do this?"  I mean, if they set up shop in the swamp, they're likely to get their shop for free and then proceed to sell 0 constructs in a year.  If they set up shop in a town, they have to pay rent, pay for someone to watch the store when they run off on adventures, and they still need to explain to you "Who is going to buy this construct?" 

Quote

 

Selling the construct takes time: The Fated cannot just "convert" the construct into cash; it has to be inspected by Union steamfitters (i.e. quality assessment) and the Union needs to find a buyer – which may take days or even weeks. What if the Union decides to use it for itself, however?

Paperwork and taxes: Since the Fated are members of the Union, they do not gain the full market price for selling the construct, but have to pay a fair amount of charges (e.g. fees for the inspection, commissions, interest to the Union etc.).

Potential risks and long-term consequences (if the Fated should decide to skip inspections and paperwork, for example): A few weeks after selling the construct, it malfunctions and manages to kill some people. Now the Fated have to get out of this mess (which may be the subject of a whole adventure).

Or do you think that I overthink this whole thing and should just roll with it? While possessing a giant construct (or arming the whole group by crafting the entire equipment) undoubtedly has its benefits (combat-wise), it is unlikely that the Fated will be able to drag it along the whole time (good luck getting it into Malifaux or Ridley, for example…).

How would you deal with that sort of situation as a FM? Any advices? Thanks in advance!

Those are all good ideas.  But I think you may be resisting too much.

I'd give the player two choices:

• "If you make a big deal about this, you could make a lot of money but you're going to be busy with it all the time.  You will be docked money whenever you leave the business on its own to adventure; and have to actively take up adventuring time to take care of your business.  You (the player) will have to explain to, and convince, me (the fate master) where your shop is and how you have enough customers to make money."  And all of the things in your post are going to be complications that may come up.
• "We can assume you make just enough to cover the cost of the store, plus whatever else is convenient for the plot."  Because why would they go off on adventures if they were rich off of construct sales.  

Really, as Fatemaster I'm going to look at the player's business scheme as the best adventure hook ever, because every bad thing that happens to it is justifiable for both drama and game balance.  Why did the store burn down?  "Bad things happen."  Why is the store being robbed?  "Bad things happen."  Why are the Guild arresting you?  "Someone committed a crime using a construct you built.  And... Bad things happen."

And, really, it's the same sort of thing that I'd tell someone that wanted to claim that their character made money from any other business, whether it was farming, bounty hunting, or assassination.  "You're one of the Fated now.  Please tell me about your plans, and we'll see what fate has in store for them.  >:-}"