esqulax Posted August 9, 2017 Report Share Posted August 9, 2017 I would say Changelings + Primordial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybaris Posted August 9, 2017 Report Share Posted August 9, 2017 The Mature has a few things going for him compared to Nekima. The most decisive one is that he is far less dependant on your control hand for effectiveness. He has an awesome to hit and armor 1. With Wing Buffet and Charge Through, he can usually go where you want him to. Nekima will deplete your stones and hand if you let her. Basically, the Mature Is a complete package, amd more reliable for the price you pay than Nekima, while she has more potential if you fuel her fire with more and more resources. The Retribution's Eyes upgrade gives the Mature an optional specialization that is out of reach for Nekima. This gets especially interesting vs Armor +2 models. To me this translates into the Mature being more suited to be sent flanking and killing scheme runners, allowing tots to break through and score schèmes unimpeded. Nekima is a centerfold...i mean she likes to be in the center, and take all the attention from everyone. In the end, i've often taken both, and it worked well in conjunction with Lilith...as it gives 3 mobile and very violent beaters forcing the opponent to devide his resources or focus on one and let the other go unscathed...More often than not, they go to Nekima and Lilith, leaving the Mature as the least of evils...only to see it run amok on a flank and near the end of the game come back into the center for added chaos. So i can defend the Mature, but i would be far less resourceful defending the Young. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emiba Posted August 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2017 Thanks for all your input, it's been very interesting. I think it speaks loads about the game that there's such a small number of models that everyone considers to be staple and there's an argument for almost every model. In the end I think I'll go with: Mysterious Effigy - Because it seems really solid Doppleganger - Because it's going to love hanging out close to Johan Primordial - Because of Gorar Johan - To beat things up As to why I didn't choose: Nekima - I'll wait for the alternate Nephilim - Box is too expensive for what it gives right now Widow weaver - Budget Changelings - Budget and unsure of whether it would win over tots. I think it'd be hilarious to hit a beater coming for them with their own attacks, but they'd have to survive to be able to do that. I'll probably pick them up eventually. Rougarou - Mainly budget. Budget played a bigger part than I'm happy with but basically there's a really narrow sweet spot between expensive shipping and very expensive customs and duty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Keenan) Posted August 9, 2017 Report Share Posted August 9, 2017 Re primordial, I'd take it every time with Titania, never with Lynch of course, and I don't own Lilith so I can't speak on her. I started taking it with Dreamer to start, get some points then summon day dreams for waking and leading nightmares. Doppelganger I stand by it and in fact never leave home without it. Interact while engaged is worthwhile let alone cheating initiative. Doesn't mean you always have to. If it isn't worth cheating then don't. I can't speak one way or another about mature neph I don't own one and with the 3 masters I own I don't see the need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Loki- Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 6 hours ago, Sybaris said: The Mature has a few things going for him compared to Nekima. The most decisive one is that he is far less dependant on your control hand for effectiveness. He has an awesome to hit and armor 1. With Wing Buffet and Charge Through, he can usually go where you want him to. Nekima will deplete your stones and hand if you let her. Basically, the Mature Is a complete package, amd more reliable for the price you pay than Nekima, while she has more potential if you fuel her fire with more and more resources. The Retribution's Eyes upgrade gives the Mature an optional specialization that is out of reach for Nekima. This gets especially interesting vs Armor +2 models. To me this translates into the Mature being more suited to be sent flanking and killing scheme runners, allowing tots to break through and score schèmes unimpeded. Nekima is a centerfold...i mean she likes to be in the center, and take all the attention from everyone. I have to agree with this. I often see the Mature disregarded for Nekima, but any time I've used him his armour 1 and positive to attack flips has come in real handy and as said, makes him more self sufficient than Nekima. Nekima has always eaten my SS pool and hand to do what she does. And while she does it better than the Mature, those are precious resources that can be used for other things. Retributions Eye is a big one. I often see people talk about A Thousand Faces on Nekima to swap for Retributions Eye for hitting armour or Malifaux Provides to eat some scheme markers for healing, but a lot of people miss the face that Retributions Eye is Enforcer only, which is fair because that's an odd restriction, but it is one. But that use of A thousand Faces works wonderfully on the Mature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybaris Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 Decent choices there, I completely understand waiting for alt Nekima ( i waited years for it!)...i wouldn't be surprised if the new one becomes more common on the tables over time than the "alt-barbaros" we currently have. 35$ is what i expected to pay for Nekima in the first place, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Git Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 Thanks @Sybaris & @-Loki- for the Nekima Vs Mature thoughts, I've actually got the bits in the mail to finish my Fae-mature! 19 hours ago, Sybaris said: In the end, i've often taken both, and it worked well in conjunction with Lilith...as it gives 3 mobile and very violent beaters forcing the opponent to devide his resources or focus on one and let the other go unscathed...More often than not, they go to Nekima and Lilith, leaving the Mature as the least of evils...only to see it run amok on a flank and near the end of the game come back into the center for added chaos. What kind of list would that look like? I was thinking something like this: 50 SS Neverborn Crew Lilith + 5 Pool - Living Blade (2) - Beckon Malifaux (1) - On Wings Of Darkness (1) Cherub (3) Nekima (13) - A Thousand Faces (1) Mature Nephilim (11) - Rapid Growth (1) Mysterious Effigy (4) Changeling (4) Changeling (4) Terror Tot (4) 3 big beaters (although Lilith's an all-rounder), the 2 changlings can run schemes or copy attacks as needed (esp, the Mature's as they get the + to attack flip), TOt is pure schemes, as is Cherub (although his bow is not to be underestimated...), Effigy protects Lilith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybaris Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 I've never played with Changelings so i can't really say about those. However, i can say that the trio of blood worked for me well enough vs Rasputina. Lilith, Nekima, Mature, BBS, 3 tots. I understand your list would be more flexible though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Loki- Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 I'd put A Thousand Faces on the Mature Nephilim to give the crew some potential anti-armour from Retributions Eye or give it some healing from Malifaux Provides which it might need after a big fight, and honestly I'd try to find the points to put both Rapid Growth and The True Mother on Nekima. Both upgrades on Nekima turn her into a growth missile. She's got the power to brute force through minions and enforcers to get those Tots growing, and The True Mother lets her bring in more Tots from Born of Blood triggering off her (0) Blood for Blood. But that's just the way I play them. Your list looks fine too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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