Outcast Henchmen - Are they superfluous?

[KrazyIvan]

Recently on the Max Value podcast I heard something interesting: the claim that Outcast Henchmen don't do enough,  in general, to be worth their points (that's not a quote, outs extrapolation from what was specifically said). The Outcast faction has access to, in my opinion, the most SS efficient, Enforcers in the game. Do those Enforcers make is more advantageous to skip taking a Henchie and loading up on extra Enforcer AP, especially consindering the additional importance (beyond its importance in standard tech) of activation control in GG17?

[Adran]

Your argument seems based on the premise that henchmen cost more than enforcers. Which isn't really true.There are a couple of cheap enforcers, but a lot of them actually cost more than a henchman. (I just checked mean value, and then realised I haven't updated my table with Nothing beast errata , ok henchmen are now slightly higher on average, 9.2 to 8.8). 

I guess its possible you could hire Jake and a specialist  instead of Aionius, but Aionius is still cheaper than Ashes and dust or the desolation engine.

You can certainly argue enforcers are more powerful than henchmen, but its not easy to claim they give you better activation control unless you always load up your henchmen with as many upgrades as you can. 

 

 

 

 

 

[KrazyIvan]

I'm thinking models like Johan, Sue, Librarian, Big Jake, etc. A&D under this idea would simply replace the 10SS plus upgrades on a Henchie, so still nets you some points back.

This obviously doesn't include Viks, or specialty builds like Scion in a void list.

Beyond AP, there is an argument that Outcast Henchies mostly kill stuff, rather than bringing utility, and our Enforcers do that pretty well already, for fewer points.

TBH I never considered it untilI listened to that cast. I mean, Hannah is pretty ubiquitous in my lists. I'm just trying to theoryfaux here.

[Mutter]

Some hench(wo)men, like Alyce, also do things nobody else (apart from Leveticus) can ...

[DXXXVIII]

You cant compare Our Henchmen to like... Yu. But Yu is bonkers. BUt our henchmen all do their job and they do them well. Nothing beast i a great  beatstick against WP-low targets. NIx is the immortal tarpit. Alyce can be your reactivate bot or a scalpel. Montresor, Ama  and Hannah are kinda weird i agree. BUt i often think about nix when i need a tarpit or about NB if i  need a beater that gives shit bout Terrain or line of sight. They actually cost that much more but the have the Option (not mandatory) to use soulstoness. And i like options.

[CapnBloodbeard]

I've never really considered 'henchman' status in determining whether to bring a model.  Although I guess using SS and an additional upgrade is nice, I tend to look at the model's utility for the game at hand.  We're spoilt for choice around the 10SS mark which is why I probably don't bring a henchman more often than do when I'm running von Schill - but Hannah and Taelor are excellent models.

 

I wouldn't agree that they don't do enough to be worth their points - I've never thought of them as overpriced models.    

 

 

[Seadhna]

Aionus is a great toolbox in himself, almost a master (and does more than, say, Von Schill)

Monty is an awesome tarpit post-errata

specialty henchmen like Scion or Hannah fill their roles superbly

Alyce is a good secondary summoner and has her utility outside of a great gun

Mad Dog is literally a beast for his points and has great synergy with Sh-heavy crews

Nix is weird, but has his uses (I'd argue both Monty and Scion tankier and more AP-efficient)

 

so no, our henchmen are awesome at what they do when you bring them into the right scenario

however, when it comes to pure stat-for-point comparisons, most henchmen are inferior to Enforcers in all factions (with some obvious exceptions such as Nekima, McTavish and Trixiebelle)