Viktorias - beginner questions

[Piotr]

How to set up a decent Viks crew? I have never played against them and i just bought their box.

My miniatures list: viks, ronins, student, taelor, nothing beast, killjoy, void wretches, scion, death marshals. Probably i will soon also add a&d or Hannah (because i have also Tara).

Which of these figures do synergy well with Viks? What is the must-have buy for Viks crew? Which minis should fit well in both Tara's and Viks' lineup? 

[thatlatinspeakingguy]

From what I have seen, Hodgepodge Emissary works pretty well in Viks crew - he gives you an additional push and serves as a scheme runner. The absolute must-have is an Effigy: it's virtually at least one soulstone per turn. Malifaux Child is also commonly seen in Victorias' crew, since he can use that pesky action that increases damage dealt by sisters.

[daniello_s]

With your current list of model I would go with:

Ash (7SS) - Sisters in Spirit, Sisters in Fury, Synch Slaying

Blood - Mark ofShez'ull, Oathkeeper

Taelor - Oathkeeper, Bigger They Are/I Pay Better

Student

2x Ronin

2x Void Wretch

You have 8 activations where 3 models hit really hard, 2 models can't be charged and can block enemy models and 2 scheme runners. Student as a support.

[Bakunin]

I'd add either Vanessa or a Freikorps Librarian for healing as a must-buy. My preference is Vanessa, she can have the Howling Wolf Tattoo and gets to use the Sister buffs from Ashes and Blood. The Malifaux Child is popular from what I've seen, but I prefer the Student for theme.

My experience with the Viktorias so far is 'upgrade the Viktorias, then hire whatever good models you want.' Their key mechanics only affect themselves, the Student, and Vanessa, so once you have the core group of Sisters everything else is mostly on its own. The Sisters don't have much to hand out in support, and what they do have is limited to Mercenaries, though pretty much everything in Outcasts is one.

I've found Ronin to be competent schemers, and Taelor is amazing, especially against summoners. Outcasts have plenty of amazing Enforcers and Henchmen, and I don't think any of them would be terrible with the Sisters. Special mention goes to Sue, for simply being excellent, and Big Jake, for being a fun schemer with a turn 5 surprise.

[Viks_Masamune]

The Viks have the best synergy with the Student and Vanessa, but I've found that you can run a crew without them and still be competitive.   I don't own Tara, so I can't really help you there.

9/10 I run the box crew, sans Taelor.  I believe that Taelor is a good model; hits hard, good flips against constructs and tyrants, and has great defenses.  That being said, she has a terrible walk value, and is usually getting into the fight by no earlier than round 2.  While her attacks are good against certain crews, I find her to be situational at best.  Since a fully buffed Blood is capable of killing off models quicker and more reliable, I find her to unnecessary most of the time in the Vik crew.

The Viks really benefit from some ranged support.  I'll second the opinion on Sue, and even Hans has his benefits.

Vanessa obviously can heal all the sisters regardless of range or line of sight.  Her Arcane staff has a solid attack value, with triggers to draw a card and get blasts.  Getting her on the certain line buff's it to a damn near guarantee. 

One thing that gets overlooked from time to time is that she (as well as the Student) also benefits from Ashes' melee expert when shes in line of sight.  While she shouldn't be in melee all that often, it really comes in handy when its applicable.

I've always had great luck with Ronin.  Can't be charged, Hard to Kill, Defensive Stance without a discard and being fairly quick means I'm getting scheme markers down by turn 2, and you have to waste the AP to get me off that scheme marker.  Seppuku is a rather comical action.  Let the opponent whittle them down to HTK,  on your activation, try and give them a good smack with the Daito, and then commit Sepuku, and collect your cards/soul stones to use on the Viks.

The Student is a pretty good model.  She can give Fast once a turn to a model in 3 inches, and can use S-in-S as well if the situation dictates it.  While I have never used the Malifaux Child, I've heard nothing but great things about him in the crew.  That being said, I still find the Student to synergize well, and adds to the fluffiness, if your'e into that too.

Hopefully that helps.  

[Freman]

The Hodgepodge Emissary giving the Memento (Companion) to Viktoria of Blood means that you don't need Synchronized Slaying on Ashes, leaving space for Survivalist. Malifaux Child casting Sisters in Fury for Ashes means that you have saved an AP from her each turn.

[Freman]

Although, that said, sometimes you're going to want to cast Sisters in Fury with Ashes anyway because you need her to go before the Malifaux Child, for example, winning Initiative, pulling Blood out of one fight, boosting her, and then throwing her back into another.

[CapnBloodbeard]

On 7/17/2017 at 7:35 PM, Piotr said:

How to set up a decent Viks crew? I have never played against them and i just bought their box.

My miniatures list: viks, ronins, student, taelor, nothing beast, killjoy, void wretches, scion, death marshals. Probably i will soon also add a&d or Hannah (because i have also Tara).

Which of these figures do synergy well with Viks? What is the must-have buy for Viks crew? Which minis should fit well in both Tara's and Viks' lineup? 

You're doing pretty well so far.  I only consider using Taelor if I'm facing a summoner or a crew likely to be construct or tyrant heavy.  But I have other models for the same SS cost

Scion can introduce some interesting things to the game - an unconventional addition, but certainly worth exploring!!

Killjoy is good, but expensive.  I only use him on schemes like Eliminate the Leadership.  Works well with Ronins

 

Ronins aren't bad, but you're really utilising their defensive capabilities.  Don't even bother shooting.  They can be handy to block charge lanes against other beatsticks. 

 

Student of conflict synergises well, especially if you want the movement tricks.  I prefer Malifaux Child though - he has a heal, and he can use the leader's cast actions, so he can help buff Vik of Blood. 

 

The main thing desperately missing from your list is healing.  Vanessa is a sister  so synergises with the sister buffs , has blasts, and healing - but it's a 2AP heal.  I prefer to keep the Child next to her, heal her and all the others heal off that.  So I don't really use Vanessa's healing.

 

Librarian has a 1AP heal and is a handy model. 

 

You could do with some shooting support.  Trapper is a good model (von Schill's crew box is a good addition for any Outcast player).  Hans has the advantage of not randomising when shooting into combat, which may be handy for the Viks.  Convict gunslinger is a great 7SS model with up to 6 shots against a single target in an activation (trigger depending).

 

Hannah and A&D are both solid models, Hannah being cheaper in SS cost but be aware that  you're still lacking shooting support.  consider Lazarus - he works well with Vanessa too.  

[Bakunin]

I don't know if I'm sold on Lazarus or Ashes and Dust with the Viktorias yet. Sure they're awesome, and if you brought Vanessa she can command them, but they're beatsticks and any Viktoria crew already has two. I think getting some utility would be better.

Convict Gunslingers should be nice, I think Howling Wolf Tattoo affects Rapid Fire as well.  Any of the Outcast Enforcers should be good. Big Jake is a neat schemer, Sue has card draw and can mess with casters, Hans has ranged attacks that the Viktorias lack.

My Student has killed enough enemy Minions that I won't leave her out. Especially when I pulled off a full four Sister Dragon's Bite/Flight of Dragons on Lucius. Life goal achieved. 

[CapnBloodbeard]

When you say 'getting some utility' - what do you mean?

You said that Viks don't need another beatstick - well, Lazarus is a powerful shooter, as is Convict Gunslinger (which you promoted) - but at 7SS, gunslinger fits into a different space in a list. 

 

You then said that any of the outcast enforcers should be good - so, I'm confused as to exactly what you didn't like about Lazarus of A&D if you think think any enforcer is fine.  I'm not trying to say 'must have Lazarus', just trying to understand your thought processes here.

 

A&D actually does have a lot of utility in being a tarpit, and can also score schemes/strats - in fact, splitting into 2 models can actually work really, really well for this.  But is expensive. 

 

I prefer Malifaux Child over student simply because is 2SS cheaper, and I run Student with Vanessa for constant healing on the Viks - and I don't tend to play Slingshot Viks.  And by doing master casting, it provides more utility for the other Viks by allowing Ash to do other stuff while ensuring Blood is still fully buffed.  

 

And my Child once killed Ototo.  So nerr

 

Ha, in all seriousness both are solid and the Student actually hits reasonably hard for a 4SS model.  This really comes down to personal preference - but unless youre want to use the Student's positioning tricks, I'd consider saving 2 SS and going for the Child.   

IMO you still need something capable of killing on the table in case the Viks die.  

In the issue of beatstick vs Utility, Killjoy is an example of that.  Another primary melee beatstick, but he's a sort of insurance policy.  Throw Blood into the middle of things and it almost doesn't matter if she dies because something scary pops out.  

Lazarus offers ranged support and blasts, which might be important.   Strongarm Suit offers mixed utility.  Bishop is a beater, but with extra AP and the chance to slow down the enemy.  They all overlap with the Viks but offer something else as well.

[Bakunin]

I agree they could both be good in a Viktoria crew, I'm just not sure they'd be on the top of the list when I was picking models. I think I'd put Hannah higher, with her action copying and Void Record. Or Sue for card draw. There isn't a huge Malifaux scene near me atm, so I don't play against nearly as many different masters as I'd like; that certainly atfects my views.

Lately I've been trying a split Viktorias idea, sending Ashes and Blood down opposite sides with a Ronin or similar. I felt like I was relying on Sisters in Spirit a lot, and saw some Lilith advice to pretend her greatsword didn't exist, and play a few games that way. So I thought, why not put Synchronised Slaying back in the box and see what happens?

[apes-ma]

24 minutes ago, Bakunin said:

Lately I've been trying a split Viktorias idea, sending Ashes and Blood down opposite sides with a Ronin or similar. I felt like I was relying on Sisters in Spirit a lot, and saw some Lilith advice to pretend her greatsword didn't exist, and play a few games that way. So I thought, why not put Synchronised Slaying back in the box and see what happens?

That's really interesting - how has it been working out? I assume that you're still using Sisters in Fury for the extra damage? Do you try to maintain LoS for the melee expert on blood? I assume that you're using each Vik more tactically to take out key pieces rather than just launching in in a blur of blades.

[CapnBloodbeard]

11 hours ago, Bakunin said:

I agree they could both be good in a Viktoria crew, I'm just not sure they'd be on the top of the list when I was picking models. I think I'd put Hannah higher, with her action copying and Void Record. Or Sue for card draw. There isn't a huge Malifaux scene near me atm, so I don't play against nearly as many different masters as I'd like; that certainly atfects my views.

Lately I've been trying a split Viktorias idea, sending Ashes and Blood down opposite sides with a Ronin or similar. I felt like I was relying on Sisters in Spirit a lot, and saw some Lilith advice to pretend her greatsword didn't exist, and play a few games that way. So I thought, why not put Synchronised Slaying back in the box and see what happens?

I've been considering this idea as well.  Using them to obliterate the scheme runners may not be a bad thing - especially as Vik of Ash does have a decent shoot as well.  Depends on the strat/scheme pool though if this would be effective or not.

 

Why are you running a Ronin with them?

 

I suspect this sort of tactic probably lends itself well to using the Malifaux Child for the buffing as he doesn't need to be anywhere near anybody to do so - although LoS can be an issue in this tactic.

[Seadhna]

I'm running Ash with Fury/Spirit/Oath Keeper, Blood with Shez'uul/Oath Keeper, Child, Emissary and Void Wretch as a core. Season with cool models such as a second Wretch, an Effigy and a secondary beatstick (e.g. "You wonder why I always dress in black..."). get full SS cache because screw random hits when you don't want them.

This way I keep activation control, have free Focuses for my merc models (*cough* Sue *cough*) and have multiple ways to deliver Blood into the enemy's face where she belongs.

 

I've also found that in this setup... wait for it... there might be room for Freikorps Specialist! The push+Focus from the Emissary turns the Flammenwerfer into a 17" threat with a good chance to burninate stuff, something that even Jack Daw couldn't do (but that's off-topic).