Timing and targeting.

[Rameyous]

Couple questions that came up while playing some campaign games.

1) Howard Langston drops a card to flurry, then targets Teddy with the first attack causing a terrifying duel. Howard is immune to paralyze(via campaign upgrade) so he fails the duel but now Teddy get a free melee attack, hits Howard, declares peekaboo to push Howard then push into base contact. Now the player controlling Teddy pushes Howard in such a way that Teddy cannot be pushed into base contact(using terrain). 

Can Howard now use nimble to get back in range for the flurry? 

2) Does perdita's upgrade that allows her to ignore duels to target models work for terrifying?

 

Thanks!

 

[solkan]

59 minutes ago, Rameyous said:

So would the current action be the flurry or the melee attack that prompted the terror duel?

 

I don't think "the current action" would be the a Flurry Action.

Even though Terrifying, unlike Manipulative which keys off of Attack actions, just specifies "... target this model with an Action", Flurry says

"... may make 3 Ml Attack Actions with an AP cost of 1 against a single target."  

So Flurry isn't specifying a variable for the actions, it's specifying that all three of the actions have to specify the same value.  In other words, Flurry isn't targeting anything.

If you contrast with Charge, Charge targets a model in the first five words, so if someone Charged that would be the "current action" that triggered terrifying and the Wp duel.

 

 

[Bengt]

1. No, you have to do all the generated Actions before you can do anything else. And if you can't do them they are lost.

2. Yes. Comparing the wording on See the Unseen with the description of terrifying and targeting on page 37 it's clear that is exactly the kind of thing they are referring to.

[Seadhna]

1. On Teddy's card it says "after resolving the current Action", so Howard gets to swing once before being attacked, pushed, and then if he's out of range the other 2 attacks are lost. The Teddy still has to hit and damage though.

[Rameyous]

7 hours ago, Seadhna said:

1. On Teddy's card it says "after resolving the current Action", so Howard gets to swing once before being attacked, pushed, and then if he's out of range the other 2 attacks are lost. The Teddy still has to hit and damage though.

So would the current action be the flurry or the melee attack that prompted the terror duel?

 

[Rameyous]

6 minutes ago, solkan said:

I don't think "the current action" would be the a Flurry Action.

Even though Terrifying, unlike Manipulative which keys off of Attack actions, just specifies "... target this model with an Action", Flurry says

"... may make 3 Ml Attack Actions with an AP cost of 1 against a single target."  

So Flurry isn't specifying a variable for the actions, it's specifying that all three of the actions have to specify the same value.  In other words, Flurry isn't targeting anything.

 

This would be in line with the FAQ stating you dont get focus for all actions generated from a charge(or flurry in this case). So its sounds like Howard would get 1 swing in then be pushed therefore losing the other 2 attacks would be lost.

Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

 

[solkan]

49 minutes ago, Rameyous said:

This would be in line with the FAQ stating you dont get focus for all actions generated from a charge(or flurry in this case). So its sounds like Howard would get 1 swing in then be pushed therefore losing the other 2 attacks would be lost.

Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

 

I think that may be a miscommunication.  I'm saying that for Flurry:

- Howard declares Flurry action.  No Wp duel occurs during Flurry itself.  As each Ml action is declared, a Wp duel for Terrifying occurs if Howard isn't immune to them yet.  Smell Fear resolves at the end of each Ml action with a failed Wp duel.

- Goward declares a Charge.  The Wp duel occurs before the Charge movement is resolved or either granted Ml action.  Smell Fear resolves at the end of the Charge if the Charge's Wp duel triggered it.  Then, if you keep failing Wp duels for Ml action targeting, you're going to potentially resolve Smell Fear at the end of the Ml actions.

So both Flurry and Charge potentially generate three Wp duels, but they happen during different actions.

[Adran]

I would say that Flurry is an action that requires a target. (It sets the limit of the single target you have to take the 3 attacks against) As such it would trigger horror before any of the attacks happen, but the Flurry action isn't complete until all the attacks take place. 

As Solkan points out failing a Horror duel does not make you immune, and so you will have to keep making one everytime you target until you pass. 

[solkan]

1 hour ago, Adran said:

I would say that Flurry is an action that requires a target. (It sets the limit of the single target you have to take the 3 attacks against) As such it would trigger horror before any of the attacks happen, but the Flurry action isn't complete until all the attacks take place. 

How does specifying that the generated actions have the same target equate to performing that targeting, or specifying what the 'target' variable is?

Compare that to the Overwhelm trigger:

Quote

After damaging, take this Action again against the same target, this Attack suffers Ml -1.  ...

The words "same target" aren't making the trigger target anything, those words are constraining the value that can be specified for a different action.

 

[Adran]

17 minutes ago, solkan said:

How does specifying that the generated actions have the same target equate to performing that targeting, or specifying what the 'target' variable is?

Compare that to the Overwhelm trigger:

The words "same target" aren't making the trigger target anything, those words are constraining the value that can be specified for a different action.

 

Because when you declare an action you have to declare the variables. My reading of Flurry is that when I declare Flurry, one of the things I have to do is say what model it targets, because as far as I can see it does target a model as the action mentions a target. the use of the word Target is a  rules term, it means the action needs Line of sight and range.

 

The wording of Flurry

This model may discard a card. If it does, this model may make 3 Ml attacks with an AP cost of 1 against a single target.

 

If you look at Rapid fire, it uses the same wording. There have been several discussions about using scout the field with rapid fire, and the consensus was that you need to use scout the field to use Rapid fire, so unless your attack doesn't need LOS itself, using your scout on Rapid fire is very pointless.