Gennosuke Posted November 2, 2016 Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 Hi all! So, I've got a question about the new upgrade for Ten Thunders, Death Contract, which I love. Both Death Contract and Decoy state that "this Upgrade [does not] count as attached for the purposes of the Abilities of friendly models.". Does it mean that the Upgrade does count in regard to Actions of friendly (or enemy) models? Could the owner of either of those benefit from the Actions of the Shadow Emisary or the Obsidian Oni? Is there in fact any model in 10T with any Ability which affects models with Upgrades? Right, Promises, I forgot It kinda looks to me me as a wording slip, but I'd like to know your opinions. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InvokeChaos Posted November 2, 2016 Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 No they cannot be affected. It's as worded. It also doesn't count against upgrade slot. It's one of those weird "this doesn't count as anything until this model dies" situations. So you can have death contract on your recalled training lone swordsman. But yeah, doesn't count for terracotta, show of force, emissary, nothing... just one of those unique things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadaverousbirth Posted November 2, 2016 Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 Promises through McCabe jumps out as the obvious one. They will not get the positives to Ml or Wp with only Death contract/false Target attached, noting the wording above. For the purpose of those abilities the upgrade does not exist, and only comes into play when the models dies. Same with the Emissary, his ability to push and give Fast only works for face up upgrades. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gennosuke Posted November 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 I may be being dense here xD, But aren't different things Actions and Abilities? The Upgrade states it doesn't count for the purposes os Abilities, but doesn't say anything about Actions (which I find strange as it's kind of obvious they didn't wanted those upgrades to be used that way) PD: Yep, right, Promises, I forgot about that one xD 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valgaav Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 I have a somewhat related question: Can you put them on Minions? Since they don't count towards the number of upgrades you have, your minion would have a total of 0 upgrades, which is legal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spooky_squirrel Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 Another action is Obsidian Oni's The Strong Only Grow Stronger. As Gennosuke noted, there is a difference between actions and abilities, and the upgrade card itself only mentions abilities. [/edit] As for Minions, page 66 of the PDF rules: Quote Minion Minions are the rank and file of the Crew. Minions follow orders and, hopefully, help usher in the Crew’s success. Minions may not purchase or attach Upgrades at the beginning of the game (although some odd cases may grant them Upgrades during the game). There are a few exceptions that state themselves clearly like: Quote One Pig Against the World > The War Pig may attach this Upgrade as if it were an Enforcer. and Quote Circus Bear > The Slate Ridge Mauler may attach this Upgrade as if it were an Enforcer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santaclaws01 Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 19 hours ago, Gennosuke said: I may be being dense here xD, But aren't different things Actions and Abilities? The Upgrade states it doesn't count for the purposes os Abilities, but doesn't say anything about Actions (which I find strange as it's kind of obvious they didn't wanted those upgrades to be used that way) PD: Yep, right, Promises, I forgot about that one xD No, you're right. Actions and Abilities are different. Shadow Emissary can push a model with either upgrade. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eclipse Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 14 hours ago, Valgaav said: I have a somewhat related question: Can you put them on Minions? Since they don't count towards the number of upgrades you have, your minion would have a total of 0 upgrades, which is legal. Yes, you can. The card states that it a. ignores restrictions, b. is attached face down and c. does not count towards anything upgrade related. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santaclaws01 Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 22 minutes ago, Eclipse said: Yes, you can. The card states that it a. ignores restrictions, b. is attached face down and c. does not count towards anything upgrade related. It does not state that it ignores restrictions. The relevent text is as such: "This Upgrade does not count against this model's Upgrade limit". The only restriction that it ignores is the limit, which one reading of the rules could be that minions and peons have a limit of 0, rather than just not being able to attach them at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spooky_squirrel Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 15 minutes ago, santaclaws01 said: It does not state that it ignores restrictions. The relevent text is as such: "This Upgrade does not count against this model's Upgrade limit". The only restriction that it ignores is the limit, which one reading of the rules could be that minions and peons have a limit of 0, rather than just not being able to attach them at all. Except that the rulebook, under station characteristics states that Minions and Peons may not purchase or attach upgrades at the beginning of the game. There are upgrades that explicitly identify exceptions (as I pointed out above). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santaclaws01 Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 Just now, spooky_squirrel said: Except that the rulebook, under station characteristics states that Minions and Peons may not purchase or attach upgrades at the beginning of the game. There are upgrades that explicitly identify exceptions (as I pointed out above). Yes, but it also goes on to point you towards a table on an early page that says they have a limit of 0. This could point to it being a limit of 0. I don't believe that is the case, but I can understand where that interpretation comes from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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