How do I use Howard Langston?

[Anung Un Rama]

I am having real trouble here. I ma far too timid with him. I know he isnt a sledgehammer and more of a scalpel. I tried the alpha strike with him reactivating....usually founf him overextendd and just ended up trading him for a model less value than him. Today i was a little timid with him, i went one way and then brought him back to attack Hannah. Ended up killing her but then lost him. I am just not sure how to use him.....Ramos' bubble is great to keep him for those from Under Pressure.....how do you use him? 

[MuMantai]

I usually use him as a flanker first... he is great attacking and clearing a flank on his own. That way, he has not enough opposition to outright kill him, and a following model (Spider, Soulstone Miner, something...) can roam there free and scheme. Also, Howard can usually by turn two to four return to the center and attack there, or attack the backfield and in sum kill things above his soulstone costs.

The other way to use him is as a counter attacker. Hold him safe at first, activate him late and charge whatever was foolish enough to attack your front line. That way you usually don't lose him in a counterattack and he can strike again before he dies.

But, just to be clear: He will die, eventually. He has a gigantic "Hit me"-Sign with him, at all times, and he will die when you use him. You just have to make sure he does enough damage bofore that happens.

[hydranixx]

Agreed, and you also want to have Imbued Energies on him 95% of the time to make his threat range higher. Simply burning IE to double walk + charge something you need to remove is what makes him so scary. I almost always have Angelica in lists that run Langston, and she essentially gives yet another 5" movement.

With Ramos, who you seem to play and enjoy, you should have no trouble out activating your opponent, or at the very least, getting roughly even in activation count. Have Langston activate last in the first turn to react to how your opponent played, ideally killing something vital or eating soulstones with his trigger, then activate him early the following round to get some more value out him before he's inevitably focused down.

Always keep an eye on how many  you have in hand. He's 13ss investment (assuming IE) , so it's worth saving almost every single good  purely for Langston to get his Decapitate trigger. 

[dancater]

Howard has a primary effective role which he always achieves:

He will draw an amazing amount of resources almost immediately to destroy him, he's such a threat people lose all perspective against him, the key is that you retain perspective; don't be too timid, he is an exchange piece, you look to trade him for other models and/or opposing resources in positioning and AP, ideally both.  But also don't be to aggressive, he can and will drop and you need to maximise the exchange on your terms as much as possible, over extend and he'll just die for inadequate opponent's expenditure.  He is solid in position denial, keeping key opponent models away from his threat bubble.

He also has a secondary role:

He kills stuff and is an opponent removal piece, this is a role he excels at (hence he is justifiably feared) but often does not fully achieve as instead opponents devote resources and/or change strategy around killing/avoiding him, again ideally you achieve this and also achieve both.

He has a tertiary role:

In strat/scheme achievement, he really should not be placing scheme markers as his AP is much more valuable than this.  Even in situations where the scheme/strat requires positioning and not placement Howard is not ideal as he wants to move freely avoiding large threats to him and hunting juicy targets; but he can do these things and in games where 1VP is the crux, he's your man-mech on the mission.  Also he is superb for certain kill based and death strat/schemes, notably frame for murder and assassination variations either in a force to fulfill or as a wonderful bluff.

 

So to maximise him....

Don't become obsessed with the "did he kill his value" equation, his strength is more the threat and changes this forces your opponent into (which is always reliable) than his actual killing power (which canny opponents will prevent).

Imbued Energies provides a decisive one round boost or useful four card trade-off (ideally though the Fast boost).

Save high Rams if you get them.

Play for activation control and hold him till late, works if only for the threat.

In rounds 1-2 hold him back a little and play his threat, try to position him for the counter-strike more than up front for the strike.

In rounds 3-4 he should be in and involved, brawling and dying, I always figure better to get him in even without a certain kill then hold him back to long and waste his power and risk him being CC'd or killed at range.  So hiding and then popping out for a charge or even just moving into melee with a model (bad but the best of the terrible situation mid-game) for threat and ranged protection.

By round 5 he'll be dead or your opponent essentially will be.

Don't try to 'sneak' him in, he's to big, obvious and well known in most meta's for that, he's an instrument of unrestrained violence.

Don't get baited out by low value models.

Be wary of crews with strong armor bypass or heavy paralyze.

Never rely on terrifying or the armor, assume your opponent's nearby models will all be able to attack and hit with all relevant AP and do min damage on there cards, then ask yourself (a) can he survive one round (if so, awesome) or (b) will the AP in attacks be so significant that the lost resource to your opponent makes his death worthwhile (OK cool and if he survives awesome). 

[Anung Un Rama]

Great replies! Thank you.

Is the brass arachnid worth taking to give him reactivate?

[hydranixx]

Yes.

At bare minimum, he's another cheap activation so can help ensure Langston gets to go later on in the early game, but if the stars align he's essentially doubling Langston's influence, for 1/3 of his price tag. 

It's also worth noting that Ramos needs 11+ for his triple spider summon, so a 10, even a 10, is usually unwanted by Ramos (if you're only going for 2 spiders, any 8+ card will do). That Brass Arachnid will happily make use of any unwanted 10's you have, especially if its 10.

You can use his other action to add the  to any 10+ card, but remember that if its a 10+, it's probably worth holding onto it for Langston himself.

[Anung Un Rama]

First game at a tourney tomorrow is collect the bounty with  hunting party, exhaust their forces, setup, setup and public demonstration

Im thinking about this list to take hunting party and setup

Ramos- Field Generator and underpressure. 5SS

Brass arachnid

Joss with bleeding edge tech

Howard with imbued energies

Mechanical rider

Electric creation

Ramos and joss will form a bubble in the middle after killing the EC and summoning shenanigans. Hank will flank and mechanical rider will also flank and go for the setup victim. what do you think?

 

[hydranixx]

1 hour ago, Morgy said:

setup, setup

wut

1 hour ago, Morgy said:

Im thinking about this list to take hunting party and setup

Ramos- Field Generator and underpressure. 5SS

Brass arachnid

Joss with bleeding edge tech

Howard with imbued energies

Mechanical rider

Electric creation

I think your crew would handle your schemes really well, in a vacuum, but your opponent will know which schemes you picked immediately and will plan around that.

My recommendation would be to consider models that can handle other schemes, even if it's just to be capable of faking them. It's a bit obvious that you'll pick Hunting Party & Set Up, since you literally can't do Public Demo, and you'd probably struggle with Exhaust Their Forces.

Honestly, I'd consider dropping Joss and putting his Bleeding Edge Tech on Ramos, and hiring a Large Steam Arachnid and another cheap minion if possible. The LSA has creative salvage just like Joss, so you're not losing out on your scrap marker generation. This way you can take or fake Public Demo, and the LSA can mitigate Set Up/Convict Labour if your opponent takes it.

Having extra minions isn't as risky with these schemes in your list as it might be in others; your opponent is probably going to be taking HP automatically once he sees you have Ramos and Mech Rider anyway. The potential of you taking Public Demo and getting 2-3VP instantly can help to keep their enforcers and henchmen honest. 

What do you reckon?

[Sordid Strumpet]

3 minutes ago, hydranixx said:

I think your crew would handle your schemes really well, in a vacuum, but your opponent will know which schemes you picked immediately and will plan around that.

 

Not knowing what the 5th scheme is doesn't help much, but I don't see how you can expect the scheme's that Morgy said they'd take. Ramos is a summoner - Exhaust their forces is great for summoners. As is convict labor. As an opponent, I wouldn't be at all confident that set up was chosen - or hunting party.

Having a summoner who makes lots of squishy minions is an issue with Hunting Party in the pool, though so it might be worth going easy on the summoning with that list.

[hydranixx]

12 minutes ago, Sordid Strumpet said:

Not knowing what the 5th scheme is doesn't help much, but I don't see how you can expect the scheme's that Morgy said they'd take. Ramos is a summoner - Exhaust their forces is great for summoners. As is convict labor. As an opponent, I wouldn't be at all confident that set up was chosen - or hunting party.

Having a summoner who makes lots of squishy minions is an issue with Hunting Party in the pool, though so it might be worth going easy on the summoning with that list.

You're probably right, most people would be cautious of Exhaust or Labour. Summons being unable to interact when they arrive, yet able to concede Hunting Party VP, puts me off such schemes a little, but yeah, Ramos could definitely do it.

Mech Rider automatically validates Set Up all by itself. Anyone familiar with it's trigger knows how easy it is for her so would be very anxious about Set Up, while having 3 relatively hitty enforcers/henchmen makes Hunting Party a very real danger. When I see that list, those are the schemes that basically earn themselves while killing things.

But that is only my perspective, who knows how your opponent will see it.

[Sordid Strumpet]

Just now, hydranixx said:

Mech Rider automatically validates Set Up all by itself. Anyone familiar with it's trigger knows how easy it is for her so would be very anxious about Set Up, while having 3 relatively hitty enforcers/henchmen makes Hunting Party a very real danger. When I see that list, those are the schemes that basically earn themselves while killing things.

But that's where reverse psychology comes in. In my opinion it's just as valid to threaten set up because it's such an easy one to do with the mechanical rider. Then, depending on how your opponent reacts, they either run for it which hands you convict labour or waste AP trying to pick up the markers - all the while your other scheme runners go about their business putting markers down in peace.

One way or another your opponent has to make a choice between conceding you points or wasting AP and potentially still conceding you points.

I agree that hunting party kind of advertises itself, though especially given the strat. A summoner may not be ideal for this and one way or another would probably be best served summoning things far away from the action to do convict labour (you only really need to start getting markers down in turn 2 or 3 for that anyway). Of course it all depends on the fifth scheme, really

[spooky_squirrel]

I had great success in bluffing my opponent in my last game with Ramos. He was convinced that I was playing Take Prisoner, when all I was doing was keeping his two biggest beaters tied up dealing with spiders. It allowed me to go after his scheme runners with Hank and Joss.

[hydranixx]

Well said, Sordid Strumpet

! You're thinking one step ahead. Mind you, if you delve into reverse psychology and your opponent doesn't pick it up - as in, if you're against a simpleton such as myself - then it's all for naught! 

You're right that Ramos might suffer a bit in Hunting Party if he's feeding easy kills to your opponent, but he's surprisingly well suited to denying Hunting Party as well once your opponent declares it, with his (0) and (1) actions that turns a friendly minion into free movement or a bomb respectively, while removing the minion.

[Anung Un Rama]

Thanks guys, some great ideas. I didn't put down convict labour because its the always available.

I would feel naked without Joss but ill give it a think I think it makes perfect sense (sounding like Kyhodee now). I do love my large arachnids. Is there another scheme I could take and replace the mech rider?

the other 4 rounds are

game 2

Scheme: Interference

Deployment: Flank

Strategies: Convict Labor, Leave your Mark, Show of Force, Frame for Murder, Occupy their Turf

Im thinking Show of force and framed for murder. Ramos bubble to get show and framed on Howard

Mech rider to hold a quarter??

game 3

Scheme: Stake a Claim

Deployment: Corner

Strategies: Convict Labor,  Show of Force, Take Prisoner, Covert Breakthrough, Search the Ruins

Show of force and search the ruins maybe? Take large arachnids to eat any schemes in the bubble instead of the mech rider?

game 4

Scheme: Reconnoiter

Deployment: Standard

Strategies: Convict Labor, Show of Force, Hunting Party, Detonate the Chargers, Inspection

Similar to the interference take the show of force and hunting party

 

Game 5 has me stumped not sure which to go. My pool of models available is Ramo, Joss, Howard. mech rider, 2 large arachnids, 2 soulstone miners, 9 arachnids, one swarm, a December acolyte, ice gamin, ice golem, Johan, brass arachnid.

game 5

Scheme: Squatters Rights

Deployment: Corner

Strategies: Convict Labor, Exhaust their Forces, Take Prisoner, Neutralise the Leader, Mark for Death

 

 

[Sordid Strumpet]

2 hours ago, hydranixx said:

You're thinking one step ahead. Mind you, if you delve into reverse psychology and your opponent doesn't pick it up - as in, if you're against a simpleton such as myself - then it's all for naught! 

You're right that Ramos might suffer a bit in Hunting Party if he's feeding easy kills to your opponent, but he's surprisingly well suited to denying Hunting Party as well once your opponent declares it, with his (0) and (1) actions that turns a friendly minion into free movement or a bomb respectively, while removing the minion.

Good point about Ramos.

 

As for the reverse psychology - the great thing is that if you don't fall for it it's free convict labour points for me. And if you do really want set up, you can always make sure you out-activate your opponent and get it with the mechanical rider once she's the only one left to go so your opponent can't react. The main idea for me is to keep my opponent guessing, so they have less time to worry about other things and might not spot a trap I'm setting up elsewhere, or make some other misplay because they were preoccupied. It forces decision making which requires mental resources that then aren't available elsewhere.

On the whole, I'd rather wait for my opponent to score a single point from convict labour (waiting for them to declare it) than rush to deny that single point and then inadvertently hand them three points for set up instead. Nice double bluff if they have both schemes, of course... I have to say GG16 makes for a much more fun meta-game than the old one where you pretty much always declared what you were up to.

[bertmac]

I like relatively tough ranged minions like acolytes and gunsmiths for collect the bounty. Sabertooth cerberus is guaranteed points for hunting party for you. Joss is a great tank but if he does get taken out that's likely going to lose you a strat point that turn.

[hydranixx]

16 hours ago, Morgy said:

game 2

Scheme: Interference

Deployment: Flank

Strategies: Convict Labor, Leave your Mark, Show of Force, Frame for Murder, Occupy their Turf

Im thinking Show of force and framed for murder. Ramos bubble to get show and framed on Howard

Mech rider to hold a quarter??

 

Frame for Murder on Howard is pretty good, a bit like the Viktoria of Blood Frame for Murder. They basically have to give you 2-3VP unless they have a permanent source of Paralyse for him. Good choice vs most crews.

Taking Show of Force when Interference is up can be a bit awkward. I'd suggest having one model that can score with 2 upgrades - perhaps Joss with the BET and IE/IP/PBF - so you aren't losing as much strat control by going for the scheme. A back up upgrade on Mech Rider is a good idea just in case you need to bring her in to ensure your points if they show up for Show of Force too.

16 hours ago, Morgy said:

 

game 3

Scheme: Stake a Claim

Deployment: Corner

Strategies: Convict Labor,  Show of Force, Take Prisoner, Covert Breakthrough, Search the Ruins

Show of force and search the ruins maybe? Take large arachnids to eat any schemes in the bubble instead of the mech rider?

Large Arachnids are good for denying many of the schemes in this pool while Mech Rider is good for scoring many of them. I'd try to keep both in. This isn't a pool that particularly needs killing power, so you could possibly drop Langston to afford those Large Arachnids. Brass Arachnid could still find a place because reactivate is worthwhile with the above choices. Tailor your schemes to your opponent's crew, I think they're all quite achievable.

16 hours ago, Morgy said:

game 4

Scheme: Reconnoiter

Deployment: Standard

Strategies: Convict Labor, Show of Force, Hunting Party, Detonate the Chargers, Inspection

Similar to the interference take the show of force and hunting party

Should work, but again, probably best to briefly reassess which to take once you see the enemy crew. If they show up with 1 easily protected minion, Hunting Party makes no sense.

16 hours ago, Morgy said:

Game 5 has me stumped not sure which to go. My pool of models available is Ramo, Joss, Howard. mech rider, 2 large arachnids, 2 soulstone miners, 9 arachnids, one swarm, a December acolyte, ice gamin, ice golem, Johan, brass arachnid.

game 5

Scheme: Squatters Rights

Deployment: Corner

Strategies: Convict Labor, Exhaust their Forces, Take Prisoner, Neutralise the Leader, Mark for Death

Ramos shouldn't have any issues with being Neutralised. Just keep him away from things that ignore Armour. Mass buffed spiders can handle Exhaust, Labour and securing the Squat markers, and they can probably secure you Take Prisoner if there's a good target for it since a lot of the action will be in the middle for those Squat Markers. One cheesy idea could be a ss miner left in reserve all game to secure Take Prisoner. They'll be hard pressed to deny it, though playing 3-4 turns down 6ss hurts.

Johan is really good for this strat in the sense that his 3" engagement reach means he can protect 2 markers at once, and push enemies away from them. Even if he dies there he can contribute to taking or faking Labour.

Especially in this round, don't be afraid to blow your own guys up. If your models are Exhausted, Marked for Death or you can see they're the Take Prisoner target, consider Uncontrolled Detonation or Magnetism or straight up attacking them to deny those VP.