Colette's Teleport ability and climbable terrain

[Design Dragon]

Colette has an ability called Df/Wp() Now you see me...: After suffering damage, discard target Scheme Marker within 1" to reduce the damage to 0, then place this model anywhere within 6"

Let's say there's a height 7 building located next to Colette as in the included image. Can Colette teleport on top of the building if she uses the above ability with an available scheme marker? Looking at total distance traveled, the answer is no as you would have to travel over 6" to get on top of the building.

During deployment though, I believe you are able to deploy onto buildings if the building is "within" your deployment zone. Does distance measuring for Colette's abilities that say "within" (there are actually a few of them) refer to this deployment-like top-down measuring, or do I need to use total distance instead (1 inch walking and then 7 inches of climbing or possibly 14 inches of climbing if climbing costs double movement)?

 

Also, do I need line of sight of the scheme marker if the ability says the scheme marker needs to be "within 1"?"

[Bengt]

The general rule is that things are measured top down with no regard for elevation. When models are "moving" they have to take elevation into account, either climbing or if flying, paying the vertical distance (as per the FAQ). However "place" is explicitly not movement, so do not care about elevation. Hence Colette can place on top of your 7 Ht terrain piece.

You need LoS to things that are "targets", so Colette need to see the Scheme Markers since it is a target.

Page 14 RM:

Quote

Measuring
All measurements are made in inches, or fractions thereof. When measuring a
distance between two objects on the table, measure from the closest point of one
object’s base to the closest point on the other object’s base. All measurements
between objects should be made using the shortest distances possible.
In Malifaux, all measurements are done from a top-down perspective. Elevation is
not factored into the measurement, although model and object height are used in
other ways.

Page 60 RM:

Quote

Placement Effects
Some effects will call for a model to be placed in a location. This is
most common when effects summon or bury models, but other rules
might call for players to “place” a model.
Placement is not movement, the model is simply put into the position
described by the rule.

 

[solkan]

In no particular order...

You need line of sight to the scheme marker because it says the key word target.

Vertical distance is currently only accounted for while moving, and then it's being done according to the terms of what's allowing the vertical movement:

• Falling down is free but may cause damage
• Moving up (and safely down for incorporeal) costs 1" per 1" when using incorporeal or flying
• Moving up (and safely down) costs 2" per 1" when using the Climbable terrain attribute

There isn't (yet) a FAQ to reign in placement going up and down ridiculously tall terrain features.

[SunTsu]

You need los when you need to "target" something. So since the ability states that you have to discard "target" scheme marker you need los.

You can place Colette over the building. Measures in Malifaux are always done in a top-down perspective, so you don't account height if a rule don't call for it. Consider that placement isn't movement. In placing you just put the model in a new position at a certain distance (so measured as I said). In movement instead, the height counts because rules specifically say so. In that case you should consider the height.

Hope I wrote it enough clear for you...

[Bengt]

3 hours ago, The MechE said:

Can you clarify where you got that flying/corporeal only take 1 movement to climb 1 vertical? Was that an FAQ thing added to the rules?

Yes, it's from the FAQ:

Quote

9) Q: How do the Flight and Incorporeal abilities interact with vertical terrain? Can a model
with Flight end its move a further vertical distance from its starting point than its Walk stat
would normally allow? Can a model with flight “leap” over a gap in two pieces of terrain?
A: A model with Flight ignores terrain for all purposes while moving. However, the distance the model moves is
still limited by the length of the move the model is allowed to take. Add the distance the model moved horizontally
in relationship to its starting point to the distance the model moved vertically upwards (downwards movement is
falling and it is never counted against a model’s movement total) in relationship to its starting point. This value may
not exceed the distance allowed by the move the model was making. For example, a model with a Wk of 6 and
Flight declares a Walk Action. It is on a Ht 3 building and wishes to move to a point on a separate terrain piece
(a Height 5 building) which is 3” away. It takes the model 5” of movement to get there (3” of horizontal movement
and 2” of vertical movement because the difference between the Heights of the buildings is 2, and the model is
moving upwards). Since the model has a Wk of 6, it can make it to the desired point on the Ht 5 building and
still has 1” of movement to use as it wishes once it gets there. Incorporeal models move in the same way, though
they may take falling damage if the end point of their move is on a lower Ht, depending on the terrain (see falling,
Core Rulebook pg. 42).

 

[SunTsu]

9 hours ago, The MechE said:

Thanks for the clarifications guys. That helped a lot.

So placing models is similar to deployment with measuring (do not need LoS, correct?), and I need LoS of the scheme marker only if the word "target" is used.

In placing you don't need los to destination, yes.

[SunTsu]

3 hours ago, trikk said:

The trigger says "discard target scheme marker" which means you need to have LoS to it.

Yes, obviously... Sorry... I misswrote the answer. But the reasoning was correct and the correct rule was understandable. However, I edited my post correcting my mistake. :-P

[Design Dragon]

Thanks for the clarifications guys. That helped a lot.

So placing models is similar to deployment with measuring (do not need LoS, correct?), and I need LoS of the scheme marker only if the word "target" is used.

[Design Dragon]

44 minutes ago, solkan said:

In no particular order...

You need line of sight to the scheme marker because it says the key word target.

Vertical distance is currently only accounted for while moving, and then it's being done according to the terms of what's allowing the vertical movement:

• Falling down is free but may cause damage
• Moving up (and safely down for incorporeal) costs 1" per 1" when using incorporeal or flying
• Moving up (and safely down) costs 2" per 1" when using the Climbable terrain attribute

There isn't (yet) a FAQ to reign in placement going up and down ridiculously tall terrain features.

Can you clarify where you got that flying/corporeal only take 1 movement to climb 1 vertical? Was that an FAQ thing added to the rules?

[trikk]

6 hours ago, SunTsu said:

You don't need los to marker. You need los just when you need to "target" something. So if the ability was written like "Target a scheme marker within 1" you would need los.

You can place Colette over the building. Measures in Malifaux are always done in a top-down perspective, so you don't account height if a rule don't call for it. Consider that placement isn't movement. In placing you just put the model in a new position at a certain distance (so measured as I said). In movement instead, the height counts because rules specifically say so. In that case you should consider the height.

Hope I wrote it enough clear for you...

The trigger says "discard target scheme marker" which means you need to have LoS to it.