Question about relenting and question about height and blocking terrain.

[BlitzMonkey]

I've seen it answered in other threads but always struggle to find them when I need to.  For my own sanity and my friends who play, two questions:

 

If a Height 2 Model is firing at a Height 2 model that is behind Height 2 Blocking Terrain, it is my understanding they would not be able to draw LOS, is that correct?  IF the first model had a vantage point, he would ignore any blocking terrain the same height as the target or lower, correct?

 

Relenting: I have read of cases where you cannot relent.  It is my understanding if there is an opposed duel, you can relent.  However, I have heard of examples where you try to do something to your own model and you can't relent.  I would assume this is like if you obey an enemy model to target something with horror as it is not opposed, correct?

[solkan]

2 hours ago, BlitzMonkey said:

I've seen it answered in other threads but always struggle to find them when I need to.  For my own sanity and my friends who play, two questions:

 

If a Height 2 Model is firing at a Height 2 model that is behind Height 2 Blocking Terrain, it is my understanding they would not be able to draw LOS, is that correct?  IF the first model had a vantage point, he would ignore any blocking terrain the same height as the target or lower, correct?

You've asked a question about vantage point line of sight expecting a Yes or No answer.    That's a mistake.

Quote

•Terrain that is equal to or less than the Ht of the lower model is ignored for LoS (but not cover).

That's going to effectively ignore the Dense or Blocking trait on that Ht2 terrain, but not the hard or soft cover traits on that same piece of terrain.

 

[Ludvig]

Wouldn't dare answer questions on vantage points.

part 2: You can only relent oppossed duels between friendly models so you cannot relent a horror duel for example (since it is a simple duel).

[lusciousmccabe]

48 minutes ago, BlitzMonkey said:

If a Height 2 Model is firing at a Height 2 model that is behind Height 2 Blocking Terrain, it is my understanding they would not be able to draw LOS, is that correct?  IF the first model had a vantage point, he would ignore any blocking terrain the same height as the target or lower, correct?

Yes and yes.

49 minutes ago, BlitzMonkey said:

Relenting: I have read of cases where you cannot relent.  It is my understanding if there is an opposed duel, you can relent.  However, I have heard of examples where you try to do something to your own model and you can't relent.  I would assume this is like if you obey an enemy model to target something with horror as it is not opposed, correct?

Yes, you can't relent simple duels. People might also refer to not being able to relent if, for example, they need a cheatable flip against one of their own models. In that case they actually can relent, but want to perform the duel to control the totals. 

[Ludvig]

You can't declare defensive triggers when relenting either so some models will want to flip their defence.

[BlitzMonkey]

Thanks!  Glad we are playing it right.

[BlitzMonkey]

1 hour ago, solkan said:

You've asked a question about vantage point line of sight expecting a Yes or No answer.    That's a mistake.

That's going to effectively ignore the Dense or Blocking trait on that Ht2 terrain, but not the hard or soft cover traits on that same piece of terrain.

 

Why is it a mistake?  

[solkan]

13 minutes ago, BlitzMonkey said:

Why is it a mistake?  

I forgot I left that part of the response in.  

I had put it in because when people ask about Vantage Point rules they tend to ask questions like this:  "I have a model on a vantage point.  There's a Ht2 model on the ground, and a Ht3 blocking, hard cover wall on the table next to it.  Can I see the model?"

That doesn't have a Yes/No answer, because you need to draw the line of sight lines through the air to see if any of them get blocked by the "statutory volume" (what that 'within the Ht of the terrain' language amounts to) of the terrain.

 

[BlitzMonkey]

17 minutes ago, solkan said:

I forgot I left that part of the response in.  

I had put it in because when people ask about Vantage Point rules they tend to ask questions like this:  "I have a model on a vantage point.  There's a Ht2 model on the ground, and a Ht3 blocking, hard cover wall on the table next to it.  Can I see the model?"

That doesn't have a Yes/No answer, because you need to draw the line of sight lines through the air to see if any of them get blocked by the "statutory volume" (what that 'within the Ht of the terrain' language amounts to) of the terrain.

 

And it is my understanding that it ignores the same height of the model it is target then.  So if the diagonal line passes through height 2 terrain into a height 2 model, it is ignored.  However, a height 1 model would not be in LOS, correct?

[solkan]

Just now, BlitzMonkey said:

And it is my understanding that it ignores the same height of the model it is target then.

Just as long as you remember that it's not completely ignoring the terrain element, it's selectively ignoring the fact that it blocks line of sight.

Cover is important.

Just now, BlitzMonkey said:

 So if the diagonal line passes through height 2 terrain into a height 2 model, it is ignored.  However, a height 1 model would not be in LOS, correct?

Ht1 model standing in H2 Dense terrain.  You can see it.

Ht1 model standing behind H2 dense terrain.  You need to draw diagonal line of sight lines because the relative positions matter and determine whether line of sight is blocked.

Same goes with the Ht1 model standing behind Ht2 blocking terrain.  How close is the Ht1 model to the terrain, relative to the model drawing line of sight?  The relative geometry matters.

[Design Dragon]

On 7/7/2016 at 5:32 PM, solkan said:

Just as long as you remember that it's not completely ignoring the terrain element, it's selectively ignoring the fact that it blocks line of sight.

Cover is important.

Ht1 model standing in H2 Dense terrain.  You can see it.

Ht1 model standing behind H2 dense terrain.  You need to draw diagonal line of sight lines because the relative positions matter and determine whether line of sight is blocked.

Same goes with the Ht1 model standing behind Ht2 blocking terrain.  How close is the Ht1 model to the terrain, relative to the model drawing line of sight?  The relative geometry matters.

Can you clarify what you mean by this?

Only bases matter unless you are talking about vantage point terrain.

See this: 

 

[solkan]

5 hours ago, The MechE said:

Can you clarify what you mean by this?

See the previous parts of the discussion where the context is established to be vantage point line of sight:  "So if the diagonal line passes through..."