Monks of Low River

[InvokeChaos]

I concur with they are actually a fairly solid choice. I absolutely love that idea with Shenlong! Totally trying that next game!

But I agree that he's a superstar with Toshiro. Or Yan Lo in general (rebuild corpus). I've really decided that lately, I want at least one condition removal piece in my lists. There's just so many nasty conditions. So it's either Chiaki or LRM... depending on my other models and SS count.

On 5/3/2016 at 11:14 AM, Rurouni Benshin said:

But on the topic of the LRM, I played one in a recent tournament, with very good success.  I played Mei Feng, but it was Toshiro that benefited the most from him.  With "Command the Graves", I was able to summon 2 Komainu on each opening turn, and with LRM, was able to take away "Slow" from one of the Komainu, while Toshiro made the other "Fast".  When it wasn't taking away "Slow" from my summoned minions, he was taking Poison away from my other models, and running schemes when needed.

Benshin, I will have to try that list. Sounds fun. What else did you run? I've been looking for a use for my komainu and Mei Fang, as I haven't put her on the table yet.

[Rurouni Benshin]

On 5/29/2016 at 0:30 PM, InvokeChaos said:

Benshin, I will have to try that list. Sounds fun. What else did you run? I've been looking for a use for my komainu and Mei Fang, as I haven't put her on the table yet

This was the list I ran for the entire tournament.  Went 3-0 with a +14 differential. 

Mei Feng (Cache 7)
- Seismic Claws
- Vapormancy
- Misdirection
Kang
- Hard Worker
- Recalled Training
Toshiro
- Command the Graves
Shadow Emissary
- Conflux of Battle
Mechanized Porkchop
Monk of Low River

First and second to activate were the Mechanized Porkchop and Emissary respectively, each making a scrap marker on their own activations at the cost of a (0) action from only one model, and that allowed me to summon 2 Komainu on the opening turn.  The Komainu ended up being my scheme runners for Round 1 and 2, and in Round 3 they helped me deny automatic points from my opponent taking Hunting Party.  All in all, I think the matchups were what really made me choose this list for each round.  At this particular tournament, there were 3 Resser players, and I somehow got paired off with each one for every round.  Mei Feng is traditionally my "Go To Master" against Ressers, and after each successful round, I just went with the list that I knew worked against the previous player. 

[InvokeChaos]

Nice! I am not familiar with the mechanized porkchop... may have to look into that. Thanks for sharing 

[Rurouni Benshin]

1 minute ago, InvokeChaos said:

Nice! I am not familiar with the mechanized porkchop... may have to look into that. Thanks for sharing 

Anytime!  You can find it in the Wave 3 Shifting Loyalties book.  It's a Gremlin model, but with the Foundry sub-type.  I proxied it with a War Pig, with layered mechanized bitz that I had from my vast collection of 40K stuff.

[Yvarre]

That's awesome to see some success with Mei Feng, Ben; you're inspiring me to paint her up and give her a second chance.  Though not before Bragging Rights...

(I've got a vast queue of touchups)

[Skitt_Happens]

7 hours ago, Rurouni Benshin said:

First and second to activate were the Mechanized Porkchop and Emissary respectively, each making a scrap marker on their own activations at the cost of a (0) action from only one model, and that allowed me to summon 2 Komainu on the opening turn.

I understand that the mech bacon and shadow emmy have other uses in the game as well, but for the purpose of creating Komainu, would you not consider spending the 17ss on a 3ss Emberling and 14ss of other fun stuff?

[tomjoad]

It's a lot easier and more reliable to get scrap out of the pork chop and emissary than the emberling, though.

[Rurouni Benshin]

14 hours ago, Skitt_Happens said:

I understand that the mech bacon and shadow emmy have other uses in the game as well, but for the purpose of creating Komainu, would you not consider spending the 17ss on a 3ss Emberling and 14ss of other fun stuff?

It would depend on the scheme pool.  In a more recent tournament, I substituted the Mech Porkchop for the Emberling and Shadow Effigy, for the current Gaining Grounds schedule (Reconnoiter Strategy, Flank Deployment).  The model count would've been consistent, but given the terrain set up, I thought the Emberling (being an Incorporeal Minion) would've been more useful.  In the first rotation of this year, I felt the strategies benefited more with the crew I listed above.  In the last tournament I played, I ended up not using that original crew at all, but with some small variations.

Out of curiosity though, what would you suggest bringing in lieu of the Emissary and Porkchop?

9 hours ago, tomjoad said:

It's a lot easier and more reliable to get scrap out of the pork chop and emissary than the emberling, though.

This exactly.  Ever since Mech Porkchop and the Emissary were released, generating scrap markers became (ridiculously) easy. 

[Skitt_Happens]

6 hours ago, Rurouni Benshin said:

Out of curiosity though, what would you suggest bringing in lieu of the Emissary and Porkchop?

Not sure. I haven't played with the Porkchop yet, and only once with the Emissary (McCabe) on vassal - too much painting to catch up on to think about conversions or proxies. But I have had good fortune kickstarting a summon list with the Emberling. Key parts of that list as I remember were Emberling, Toshiro and Yu w/ Low River Style. The game went to 8 turns (damn you Tara!) but in the course of that time I was able to summon 6 Komainu and an Ashigaru (Something like that, it was a while ago), in fact I only summoned the Ashi to see what it did - could have easily summoned another Komainu.

So as an alternate:

Emberling

Yu / Low River

+3ss cache

[Rurouni Benshin]

I find Sensei Yu to be less useful with Mei Feng.  Unless I take "Wings of Wind" on her, he has no (0) action that he can copy, which I'll be honest, is the biggest reason why I'd take him.  Just about every other TT Master has a (0) action that they rely on routinely (Misaki with Stalk, Yan Lo with Instill Youth and Ascendence, Lynch with Mulligan, Brewmaster with Drinking Contest, McCabe with Take This, Shenlong with EVERYTHING). 

Mei Feng is literally the only Master without a (0) action that Sensei Yu can optimize.  Granted, he can get another push with "Wings of Wind", but that would mean having to give up one of the other upgrades on Mei Feng, and I find the combination I put on her to be very effective already.  Mei Feng is also the one Master that has the least amount of trouble getting around the board, provided there are enough Scrap Markers or friendly Constructs in play.  With a built-in suit to trigger another Rail Walk or Jackhammer Kick, getting her around the board and into combat quickly isn't as difficult. 

[Skitt_Happens]

I actually nearly always take Wings of Wind on Mei: it allows her to push the construct into the right position to jump to and if I'm steam bubbling, it allows yu to move her (and as a consequence the entire crew) without suffering  to cast.

Depending on what she's doing it is not always essential, but a master without a (0) may as well have Slow in my eyes. With Mei, you are definitely going to be using that upgrade, put it on someone else and you'll only use it half the time.

Interesting though - I think Yu is a more essential part of my Mei Feng crews than he is in my Misaki. I like to tank, tank, tank, explode! in every direction.

[Pyrflamme]

Personally, I find the (0) push for out of activation movement so handy that I always take it, Mei's own push is just icing on the cake, allowing me to do an extra Vent turn 1. It and her combo upgrade are the mandatory ones, then I pick and choose for the third.

[Rurouni Benshin]

Maybe it comes down to the style of play then.  Having the extra push at the end of the turn is nice.  I just like Misdirection on her too much to give up.  Having a trigger on Df duels for both winning and losing is too good for me to pass up, especially when I like throwing her into a big crowd of enemy models.  Vapormancy is my second auto-include for the Ca 7 attack that can cause Burning from 3 away.  If anything, Seismic Claws is the upgrade that I find myself using less, but I believe that more to be situational than a consequence of the way the games I've been playing in.  In my last game with her, it was because of Seismic Claws that I managed to kill Perdita in one activation.  I agree not having a (0) action that I can use every turn makes them less efficient, but that's also why I find ways of compensating.  And without a (0) action on my Master, Sensei Yu always stays home. 

[InvokeChaos]

I've really been mulling this whole LRM thing around and I'm starting to think I've really done these poor chaps wrong.

This thread has been fantastic for opening my eyes to a model I'd always liked, sometimes fielded, but also left in the box a little too often.

There's so much that's good about this model when you really think about it:

No pitching to go defensive
Immune to slow (and burning/poison)
A built in self-heal with no other 0 action (akin to dawn serpent)
Ml 7 (!!) for disengaging strikes. 
Gets +1 focus when focusing (as already pointed out this goes stupid good with the emissary and shenlong)

Really, he has three negatives in my mind:

No charge range. Which really matters in that you can't glowing saber to make him a legitimate threat (like you can the archers who have like a Cg of 8... /shakeshead)
No actual damaging ability. Even if it was a bop for 1pt. That's still awesome against HtW. But fluff-wise, I do get it.
5's on the df, wp & wd... but let's face it, this model is 4pts. That's pretty awesome with how easily it can go defensive.

This guy is AWESOME. And activation control is a thing... these guys help with that thing. Totally putting them on the table more. Plus it really sticks with my current theme of having at least one model on the table that can remove conditions!

Now I just need to have the same amazing epiphanies on the HRM and FRM so I can do my elemental Shen Long list  

[chris_havoc]

I like to take two Rail Workers and the Emberling. If you have to have the Scrap, the Emberling can provide. But you also have living constructs in the Rail Workers and they are murder machines with their damage track and resilience. So they have to be dealt with and when they are, you get a Komainu or Ashigaru out of the result. Both of which are great for attrition. Also, does Hard Worker not give a (0) too? I can't see Yu gaining all that much from it though. I've not really played with Wings of Wind but I can imagine it benefiting Mei even without Yu as she can push her slower crew around.

On the Low River Monks, I find them very cool but they are very situational. I would love it if they were Hard to Kill, taking 2 or 3 of them then would make them really great at attrition then. Otherwise, I must say Chiaki is better for Condition removal in most crews and my Shenlong is pretty much always packing Low River Style for the Defensive buff that makes Misdirection ridiculously likely to trigger, so I don't need the condition removal for him. Sensei Yu is too expensive a lot of the time but Chiaki brings healing into the mix as was mentioned before and she is faster and more survivable than the monks. Perhaps if they could also heal other models. A lot of the time they just don't seem to offer enough to get them off my shelf I think especially because of the 1" no Cg range too, compared to either of the other means of condition removal they are lacking and they are no where near as good as Tengu at Scheme running, I reckon they need a little buff.

People complain about the High River Monks but I think they are solid for their points and my opponents have felt the same. Low River though need a minor buff to make them worthwhile in more than just one Shenlong trick.