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Okay so someone mentioned an airship captain as a new master they wanted to see.

Got me thinking.

Can I construct one in TtB? I believe the answer is Yes.

Here's how I got it.

Take a ship ( no I haven't figured the Script cost yet) and modify with a special area to work magic ( Focus Object)

If you can stack the Float spell on an Object multiple times (needs a public or a private ruling form the Fate Master) you could make an object raise up to 3 yards a round and hold that position for up to a day with relativity lil problem. Thus a floating ship exists.

Movement would be trickier, obviously sails gives you an option of wind power. I have a trick or two in mind for the movement too, alas its time to go to work and ill have to post again later once I get those options on paper.

Anyone have an issues with the basic ideas of my air ship so far?

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I believe you're talking about an Ebberon style airship where it's basically a boat with some sort of magical flotation device, and quite honestly, that's the way to do it in my opinion if you'd want that style. it would probably require a high lade-rating soulstone, (possibly even an artificial stone with a high capacity)  to keep up the spell, but I could see it working out. in the setting where the Leviathan was a thing, I wouldn't see it being much of a problem, as long as you don't want it licensed by the guild.

otherwise, Zeppelins are also certifiably a thing in setting, and there are some both figuratively and literally floating around, so there would probably be some engineers willing to help with the construction of a new one. 

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On ‎1‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 7:48 AM, LordZombie said:

You could have them also just own one of the airships in Malifaux. Maybe them won it in a bet, or stole it. Airships are out there. 

I can't remember seeing any fluff about there being airships on Malifaux side, I might have missed it. Either way I am trying to figure out the mechanics of it. I mentioned to a player about the possibility of having an airship and he is very interested, so I need to get some rules set up for how it works.

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On ‎1‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 7:58 AM, Sunspotter said:

I believe you're talking about an Ebberon style airship where it's basically a boat with some sort of magical flotation device, and quite honestly, that's the way to do it in my opinion if you'd want that style. it would probably require a high lade-rating soulstone, (possibly even an artificial stone with a high capacity)  to keep up the spell, but I could see it working out. in the setting where the Leviathan was a thing, I wouldn't see it being much of a problem, as long as you don't want it licensed by the guild.

otherwise, Zeppelins are also certifiably a thing in setting, and there are some both figuratively and literally floating around, so there would probably be some engineers willing to help with the construction of a new one. 

Ebberon style ship sounds about right, also working off the new Series by Jim Butcher for some of my ideas.

I don't know about you but given how dangerous Zeppelins are in a friendly environment, you couldn't pay me to board on in Malifaux.

Same thing with Hot Air Balloons, your just begging for a rouge spell slinger, native creature or Neverborn to come make your into a pancake.

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3 hours ago, TemplaroftheMS&U said:

I can't remember seeing any fluff about there being airships on Malifaux side, I might have missed it. Either way I am trying to figure out the mechanics of it. I mentioned to a player about the possibility of having an airship and he is very interested, so I need to get some rules set up for how it works.

References to airships can be found in a few different places. They get the most mention in Into the Steam, which talks a bit about Winston's Dirigibles, a company that is trying to increase the number of airships in Malifaux.

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I found Mason's reference.

It sounds to me they are more like Zeppelins or Carriages attached to Hot Air Balloons.

I don't have the Raising Powers book but I'll ask a friend who's got it to track down the info.

As for the Magic and Mechanics.

I figure the ideal Soulstone would be a Lode 9 or 10. This would allow you to bind the spell repeat once every hour.

I also did some Math and figure the most Suits I can sneak out of a single action is 5.
One for a discard action from the Work Smarter ability. One from the Soulstone. One from the Channel Destiny Talent. One from Specialized Skill. last but not least One from the Flip.

I was thinking you could consider the Navigation of the ship as an Ongoing Duel, variable TN's depending on weather, maps, etc.

I am also thinking the idea sized ship for a "Private" Vessel would be a Caravel Class ship. Houses about 15-20 people at full capacity.

Any thoughts?

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On 1/9/2016 at 8:26 AM, TemplaroftheMS&U said:

Take a ship ( no I haven't figured the Script cost yet) and modify with a special area to work magic ( Focus Object)

If you can stack the Float spell on an Object multiple times (needs a public or a private ruling form the Fate Master) you could make an object raise up to 3 yards a round and hold that position for up to a day with relativity lil problem. Thus a floating ship exists.

Movement would be trickier, obviously sails gives you an option of wind power. I have a trick or two in mind for the movement too, alas its time to go to work and ill have to post again later once I get those options on paper.

Anyone have an issues with the basic ideas of my air ship so far?

Assuming you're the Fate Master, why do you need to be wholly restricted by the confines of what exist in the current rules system?  Things might exist in fluff that you can't properly represent with mechanics.  If you want to drag them into the game, you don't need to fully be validated by existing rules.

Granted, it isn't a bad idea to compare, at least to get a feel for general TN values (Flying it or such), or the sort of prices (Script or power required to fuel or such) required to maintain // build one.  But not having the exact spells you want or need is less of a concern IMO.

Unless you're not the Fate Master, and you're just trying to convince them to incorporate something in the game, and you need hard evidence you could to make them agree.  But then again, I'd consider that Fate Master a bit silly if they wanted concrete proof first :P

On 1/10/2016 at 4:04 PM, TemplaroftheMS&U said:

Ebberon style ship sounds about right, also working off the new Series by Jim Butcher for some of my ideas.

I don't know about you but given how dangerous Zeppelins are in a friendly environment, you couldn't pay me to board on in Malifaux.

Same thing with Hot Air Balloons, your just begging for a rouge spell slinger, native creature or Neverborn to come make your into a pancake.

Yayyyy, Ebberon.  Possibly one of the best settings for D&D ever.. and it wasn't even made by Wizards :P.  I do love everything in that setting though.

As for Zeppelins, you could assume a number of things that safeguard them.  With magic existing already, perhaps they have warding runes or spells placed on their canvas to prevent explosions?  Likewise for hot air balloons, there could be a number of fail-safes in place to stop pure bad.

As least, from the perspective of what they bring to the world, if they generally only provide movement, maybe a little bit of combat capacity for raiding, they won't be upsetting things too much.  But if you had something like a Peacebringer that could fly, that would be terrifying.  Granted there are a few things that can fly in Malifaux that you wouldn't want to run into.  Although they aren't exactly larger beast or anything, and their flight is probably a bit more localized or short term.  I don't imagine any Nephilim roaming the skies.  Although I could be wrong, and that could be a sweet encounter for a group that had a flying ship :mask

On 1/11/2016 at 7:06 PM, Mason said:

They get the most mention in Into the Steam, which talks a bit about Winston's Dirigibles, a company that is trying to increase the number of airships in Malifaux.

"A company trying to increase the number of airships in Malifaux."

What a nefarious plot!

:P But seriously, what sort of goal is that?  I mean, making more sales makes sense (Sounds like they're in the business), but making airships to simply fill the skies with them makes little to no sense.

 

Either way, putting things you want into the game shouldn't be a strict exercise in mechanics.  If you feel it'll be fun you should make it happen, rules be damned.

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23 minutes ago, Tawg said:

"A company trying to increase the number of airships in Malifaux."

What a nefarious plot!

:P But seriously, what sort of goal is that?  I mean, making more sales makes sense (Sounds like they're in the business), but making airships to simply fill the skies with them makes little to no sense.

Needless to say, Into the Steam goes into much greater detail on Winston's plans on the matter. ;)

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If you are in my campaign please do not read!! :-)

 

There is a few references to airships in the Fated Almanac: 

"Upon the towers atop the Enclave are perched the ropes, pulleys, and machinery of the newly repaired Dockmast One, the Guild’s premier Aircar hub. " 

It seems it was damaged at one point but is now up and running again, i'm not sure if it's a true airship but in my mind it is, just attached to guide ropes to keep it on course. Please correct me if this is wrong.

It gave me the idea (see below) to create a zeppelin style model for my fated players, just waiting on delivery of an rc pirate ship that I will convert into a dirigible and keep under a sheet for a big reveal i.e. ta da today we set forth into the wilds upon the most majestic of Malifaux engineering and magic, Dr G.C's fabulously fancy flying machine (patent pending).

I must admit that I got the original idea from an Acquisitions Inc. PAX adventure, all hail Chris Perkins.

 

I would love to know how it all turns out for you

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Aircars, while technically airships, are probably closer to trolleys with buoyant balloons to support their weight. They run along guiding wires that take them along pre-determined routes and are mostly just for the use of the Guild and people with the cash to afford the tickets.

Proper airships like zeppelins are present in Malifaux, but usually beyond the boundaries of Malifaux City (which bans them within its boundaries after the some Gremlins tried to shoot down a zeppelin over the city).

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8 hours ago, Mason said:

Aircars, while technically airships, are probably closer to trolleys with buoyant balloons to support their weight. They run along guiding wires that take them along pre-determined routes and are mostly just for the use of the Guild and people with the cash to afford the tickets.

Proper airships like zeppelins are present in Malifaux, but usually beyond the boundaries of Malifaux City (which bans them within its boundaries after the some Gremlins tried to shoot down a zeppelin over the city).

What did the Gremlins use to try to shoot the zeppelin down, most weapon they have wouldn't be able to hit it?

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Its Gremlins so this is what I visualize.

Wong straps a big freaking rocket to a gremlins back, who then climbs into a Pigapult with a Stuffed Piglet.

They launch the gremlin and piglet out, planning on the gremlin to blow up the piglet, lighting his own rocket in the process and then hitting the flying thing.

Naturally it didn't work, but I imagine a rather pretty light show went off in the direction of the Zeppelin, probably even got close enough to make the people on and around the ship very nervous.

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23 hours ago, Mason said:

Needless to say, Into the Steam goes into much greater detail on Winston's plans on the matter. ;)

What a tease.

 

Although in all honesty, my knowledge of Malifaux lore is woefully lacking.  I should look to the piles of books I already own, and actually read the stories there in, perhaps even pursue the lovely Chronicles Wyrd releases, before I jump into the RPG digging for interesting stories.

Hell, I don't even know what half the locations on the Nythera campaign map were.  Innocence I've gathered is a town (Maybe destroyed or something?), and I caught the drift that the Knotwoods were Neverborn territory, oh and apparently the Family own a major chunk of land!  But beyond those, I was more or less lost :wacko:.

Although by chance, googling to get to Wyrd's website the other day, I was presented with the information that in Middle-English "wyrd" was a word used in the context of a person's fate or destiny.  Which makes a lot of the "flavor context" of choices the company has made in their games make.. a lot of sense.  :P

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7 hours ago, Tawg said:

Hell, I don't even know what half the locations on the Nythera campaign map were.  Innocence I've gathered is a town (Maybe destroyed or something?), and I caught the drift that the Knotwoods were Neverborn territory, oh and apparently the Family own a major chunk of land!  But beyond those, I was more or less lost :wacko:.

Most of the locations on the Nythera campaign map were teases of places that haven't been mentioned in much detail yet. Into the Steam touches upon the Neverborn in the Knotwoods when discussing the rail line that runs through the forest, and Innocence has its own Penny Dreadful, but the other locations are still a mystery... at least, until the Neverborn book comes out and discusses the Badlands in greater detail.

 

We'll be taking the actions of the players into account when writing those locations, so if you played in the Nythera campaign, you've made a contribution to Malifaux lore. :)

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6 hours ago, Mason said:

Most of the locations on the Nythera campaign map were teases of places that haven't been mentioned in much detail yet. Into the Steam touches upon the Neverborn in the Knotwoods when discussing the rail line that runs through the forest, and Innocence has its own Penny Dreadful, but the other locations are still a mystery... at least, until the Neverborn book comes out and discusses the Badlands in greater detail.

 

We'll be taking the actions of the players into account when writing those locations, so if you played in the Nythera campaign, you've made a contribution to Malifaux lore. :)

Ahh.  I had heard of the Penny Dreadful.

But a Neverborn book..!?!?  I hope you have rules for being Neverborn.  I don't know if that's too radically different from how normal Fated work or what, but dear god I want that.  By far one of the most compelling aspects, from the standpoint of wanting to play the Malifaux Pen&Paper, is that.. it's really hard to delineate right from wrong.  Really, it ends up being a matter of what faction your players want to support or if they want to be involved with them at all (Perhaps they find evil in all of them, and reject it), but that aspect, that you can twist the boundaries of "right" based on being part of say, the Guild, where it might be accepted that part of the city has to be cleared of anyone due to a Neverborn plot, and innocent lives may be acceptable casualties to prevent a disaster, where others might find that simply an atrocity?  And of course, one thing I've been dying for is a chance to flip the coin, and present the world from the Neverborn side.

So hopefully the book isn't just expounding on Neverborn in the game, but expanding the scope of them for players, because I would gladly dive headlong into that.  Unfortunately right now I don't have a group though, but it's not too big of a deal, it's hard enough getting people to play any game on the regular, let alone one they aren't as excited by or familiar with :P.

But I do adore the community building aspect of Wyrd, and I recently found that contest that is running this month, which is very interesting!  The fact that the community is able to have such an impact, and really help build the game is an amazing aspect for a company, I hope you guys don't ever lose it.  It really makes things feel personal, and gives people a chance to help craft things they love even if they aren't in a position to be releasing fantasy material on their own :P.

I think I've gone fairly far from the original topic at this point, so I should probably stop.

By the way, on topic, in regards to :

23 hours ago, TemplaroftheMS&U said:

I'd like to point out maintaining magic spells takes Soulstones. Those are expensive.

The one I am looking at would run a character around 200,000 script.

This doesn't have to be entirely true.  Even in Ebberon maintaining spells in a true sense would be quite costly, but it's the reason they don't simply maintain perpetual spells on objects.  They leash Elementals and force them to fuel their vessels, binding them like in Howls Moving Castle.  Of course this is want to make them quite upset, though Elementals are usually forces of nature, things that are unlikely to see any attempts to free them by their kin or break free if the proper bindings are put in place.

But.. that could be applied to Malifuax.  Why not invent some sort of Neverborn that simply can maintain such a device, and shackle it or bind it to the ship?  It could be as simple as an elemental-esque entity that can naturally cause levitation or something, or a powerful "Caster" of some sort that draws power directly from Malifaux rather than requiring the Soulstones like a human might?  Granted I don't know the Malifaux lore in and out, so perhaps even the Neverborn are bound by the power of Soulstones.

But if that isn't an issue, or you are willing to over look it, it could make for an interesting device.  Escape attempts by Neverborn trying to sabatoge the ship to free their brethren.  Or the manufacturer keeping the whole inner workings of the vessel obscured, so as to divert attention away from the practice of having a live monster on the ship powering it, which would more than likely make normal people none to keen on boarding.  There could be a lot of cool things, and I know the Nephilim can be enslaved, because Perdita has one already :P

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Alright... So I've been doing some research, and have found that people love to list off the dimensions of ballons/dirigibles/zeppelins, but it's a royal pain to find any actual costs.  The Hindenburg (which is about 30 years after what we're looking for) was well over $2 million.  But that thing was also gigantically enormous.  So... I'm going to sort of guesstimate and make stuff up.

First off, the very first zeppelin LZ-1 in 1900ish reached an altitude of about 433 yards, which is definitely not achievable via Float.  This makes me think that the craft should be able to rise up without magic (if we use the given system as a hard limit).  Next would be propulsion, but aside from Telekinetic Push I can't really find a spell that makes sense, so once again I propose just using mundane engines/propellers.  But now we get to the part where I think Malifaux truly comes in:  fuel is *expletives!* expensive.

I actually have a really really funky idea, but I think I love it.  What if the dirigible was itself just an animated construct?  We know we can power these with magic, and thus may not need to invest in the ridiculous cost of real zeppelin fuel.  All we have to do is figure out the stats and cost.  So, here is my process at figuring that out:

Assuming Height 1 = 3ft, Height 2 = 6ft, and so on (not perfect, but I need a system to get this going), then the 420ft long LZ-1 would be HT 140.  Assuming basic craftsmen are used to build the damn thing (skill rank 2?) we get 280 construct points to play with.

Starting aspects will end up being:

Might:  137
Grace: -139
Speed: -139
Resilience: 137
Intellect: -5
Charm: -5
Tenacity: -5
Cunning: -5

Walk: UNMOVING!

So first off we need to get this thing moving.  The speed we're aiming for is 17mph (super impressive).  After doing some conversions with the assistance of the ladyfriend (it's been so long since I've had to do these!) I found out that this is about 1.662222... yards/round (5 second rounds via the Suffocating condition).  So we need to raise this thing's speed just a tad.  Since Walk is computed by adding half of your speed, that means we need about -4 for that aspect.  So we're spending most of our 280 points on getting this thing going.

Speed = -4, costs 135 points.  Points remaining = 145
Walk = 4 + (-4/2) = 2 (yes, everyone can outrun this thing)

For the sake of sanity I'm going to pretend that -5 is the lowest Grace you can have and still turn (this is also so that I can blow the rest of my points).

Grace = -5, costs 134 points.  Points remaining = 9

So now we can either give this beast more better stats or some skills because we're goofy.  I'm opting for Labor and Navigation (because why not!?)

Labor = 5
Navigation = 4, and points = 0

Cost = 1S + 10xpoints spent, so the cost will be 2,801.  That's perfectly reasonable... right?  With the added bonus that the pilot doesn't need to know how to read a map!

In summary, here is the complete statline for Zeeblee's Zooming Zephyr Zeppelin:

Might: 137
Resilience: 137
Grace: -5
Speed: -4

Defense: 2
Willpower: 2
Height: 140
Walk: 2
Charge: 2
Wounds: 73

Navigation: -1AV
Labor: 142AV

Cost: 2,801 scrip and any hopes of getting somewhere fast (or safe?)

Luckily, my good friend, this flying bestial construct of burden is not actually that difficult to control!  If you are already of the [Guild approved] magical kind, it is but a simple casting of the Animate Construct Magia:

TN10:tome = 1 hour duration

Immuto:
Focus:  Size = -3, Uniqueness = -3?
Increased Duration x2: +4 (one day duration)

Total:  TN10:tome

Alternatively we could just add the cost of 1000 scrip we can also provide you with a soulstone to maintain our casting for you.  Though you will have to keep the stone fueled somehow...

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Why do you hate me Zeeblee?  :(

 

I'm joking, but really, such sillyness :P.  I appreciate your efforts to ground the idea in the game, but I dunno personally.

I mean really, when I'm looking at "Cost" of things in a game, I typically place items in one of three or four categories:  Unobtainable, Plot-given/funded, Petty Cash, and questionably a "Just out of reach" category, if the PCs like striving for more expensive gear or like the idea of trying to barter or gain funds to acquire new shinies.  So realistically, anything involving a Zeppelin or Dirigibles, IMO, would either be Unobtainable or Plot-device style, certainly I would never expect a party to earn one themselves.   Although perhaps one is nearing completion and they need to buy or otherwise "Acquire" the one or two missing components to get it working, and it will by default belong to them via some deal or such.  But not really expecting anyone to save up to buy one on their own.

That said, I'd also like to point out Newtonian Physics.  It's pretty great.  But it doesn't work.  Not in all cases anyways.  When you look into Quantum Mechanics and the workings of subatomic interactions, it's really rather bunk.  And before anyone ask, I'm not a physicist, but I think it's a fairly well known fact what I'm stating :P.

The point being, most resource guides available to GM's are in a similar vein.  They are typically designed with an intention, and some cost may even be balanced to a specific goal or need in mind in the game set they intend to be played.  Like the cost of Soulstones, which may be quite high, but when you require as much as you may be want to attribute to the "workings" or "maintaining" of one of these fanciful devices, it can become overwhelming in a restrictive way.  And to that I say "Screw it!".  If the rules don't seem to fit your intentions, or you need things to be in line with something you are planning, bending the rules makes more sense than trying to fit your idea to conform to a set of guide lines which may be unintended or meaningless to the concept you are applying.  And really, I feel like most games fit themselves into the concept of working with the "Petty Cash" aspect of the game, restricting players from owning a suite of powerful gear, and allowing them to build a collection over time.  Seldom do they really concern themselves with the feasibility of "larger than life" style goals.  D20 Modern as well as Mutants and Masterminds is a good system for eschewing typical "1 for 1" currency exchange in favor of making "benchmark" wealth levels obtainable.  Most systems that rely on currency however, I find fall short of making good economic models worth strictly adhering to.

 

But as always, everyone is free to do what they want.  I just strongly advise simplifying things rather than trying to convert things into a strict 1-for-1 system.  Managing capabilities and what should be possible is always a good exercise though, so I can't argue with your efforts @zeeblee  :)

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Yeah, I get what you mean by the high price point.  But honestly, given the economy of the game I can barely even imagine players purchasing a carriage without taking out a significantly sized loan (which shouldn't actually be too hard...)  Also, owning an airship is likely on par with owning a train in Malifaux, and that's also not something I really think of players ever owning under normal circumstances.  Though if you stick to the soulstone price table and let your players snag some from a mine/shipment/whatever, then that's a pretty big wallet influx.  The main issue I see with giving TtB characters any wealth is the same as Dungeons and Dragons:  given the huge difference between the cost of food/shelter and magical adventuring gear, why don't people just sell their +2 fire sword and retire comfortably?  Once I can sell a soulstone for 1000 scrip, why would I continue risking my life when I can easily afford all the food I'll ever need?  Luckily TtB has fate, so while they may sell all of their travel gear and try to settle down, something will bring them back into the fold.

Personally, once my players get into the story enough, I like to throw bigger things their way.  Soulstones, expensive gear, piles of money and/or dispensation rights.  It lets them access the bigger things, and since I've waited until they are more devoted to the story, they're less likely to just throw it away.  Especially if you attach something special to it.

As for my efforts, I definitely did not go into this wanting to build a weird pseudo-sentient flying machine.  I originally was trying to look up the real-world cost for a zeppelin, but it was way way more difficult than I was willing to get into.  That and the only cost I did find was for the Hindenburg, which not only is much more intense than the basic airship asked for, but was also well outside of any conceivable player bank account (you think 3,000 scrip is too much?  Try 3,000,000!)  Thus I resolved to game the system a bit and create my monstrosity.  Compared to the real world, it actually costs peanuts.  It also gets around the Float Magia problem of maxing out at 5 yards of altitude.

I kind of curious why you bring up Newtonian Physics, Tawg.  While you're right that it doesn't answer everything, it definitely gives us enough to make moving machines.  Do you bring it up as a response to trying to find a power source?  I must know!  :mellow:

In the end I think these are fun things to think about, but honestly stuff that will never be a standard player item.  But I do so much enjoy the silliness that came from building that damned thing.

And just for you, @Tawg, if I end up building an airship tugboat for a dirigible shipyard, I will call it the Might Towing Tawgboat. :D

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19 hours ago, zeeblee said:

I kind of curious why you bring up Newtonian Physics, Tawg.  While you're right that it doesn't answer everything, it definitely gives us enough to make moving machines.  Do you bring it up as a response to trying to find a power source?  I must know!  :mellow:

See:

On ‎1‎/‎16‎/‎2016 at 0:19 AM, Tawg said:

The point being, most resource guides available to GM's are in a similar vein. 

:P

It was an analogy.  Newtonian Physics works great when you're looking at the scale it's meant to describe, but when you want to know more about certain things, it kind of falls apart.  I was suggesting the most games are not made with a comprehensive "Economy System" to describe the cost and effects of all things you may need to think about in any given situation.  Especially in regards to extremely large expenditures with games that simply use currency as the basis of item prices.  They are typically made with the mind set of balancing starting to higher end gear.  But complex things like building a whole town or such, usually are better off being abstracted, or if you want to evaluate actual cost (For some god awful reason) the standing price marks usually don't account for things like.. larger quantities of materials (Cheaper or more expensive depending on availability), things like labor, actual cost vs price expected to be paid.  I mean, economies are very complex (And typically boring), so I don't blame it.  I just find it a bit off to suggest finding answers to these questions using the rules we have.

 

I'm looking forward to the Tugboat though :huh:

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  • 1 month later...

To my knowledge, reading directly from the the games lore books/ttb references. There was only ever one zeppelin airship, it was shot down in the industrial district by grimlins, its broken and isnt allowed to fly even if rebuilt until the risk of being shot down again is removed, your best bet is to find the engineer responsible  (his name should be in the fated almanac). It was the only known working prototype of its kind in malifaux.

Thats not saying its impossible to have a player make one, though they'd need high marks in the skills needed to craft it and spend a lot of time. I'm not sure about soulstones though...

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