Gabbi Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 I mainly use cyanoacrylate for almost everything nowadays so this isn't a big issue, anyway it's something I'd like to understand anyway... also, having the plastic glue option available could be handy when the more tiny parts are involved. Anyway, I have experienced this issue with different manufacturer models (Wyrd's Malifaux, Gripping Beast Vikings). I've glued them with plastic glue (mostly GW, used to own a pot of Molak, too. don't even know if the brand is sold anywhere else). Anyway, the bond seems fine, everything looks ok, but after some time (I'm speaking of weeks or even months) the model simply fall apart. The bonds look brittle and the (not anymore) bonded surfaces are rough to the touch. When I speak of model falling apart I intend literally, by simply handling it. Do anyone experienced this issue? What may have caused it? I have no records or statistics, I can't say for sure brand of glue (but probably GW as I have used mostly that), age of the bottle etc. I would exclude age of glue as after first time happened I purchased new glue but happened again. What I am sure about is it is not a issue tied to the model plastic as it happened with multiple brands. Maybe it's me? May have applied it in some wrong way?Anyway, I almost stopped using plastic glue by years now because the issue looked totally random and not detectable at the moment I built the model, just weeks later. But now I'd like to be able to comfortably use plastic glue to assemble the more fiddly parts of Malifaux models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solkan Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 To quote wikipedia:Cyanoacrylates are a family of strong fast-acting adhesives with industrial, medical, and household uses. Cyanoacrylate adhesives have a short shelf life if not used, about one year from manufacture if unopened, one month once opened.The real question is why you're using cyanoacrylate (a.k.a. superglue) instead of plastic solvent glues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabbi Posted October 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 Because I play games with models in other materials. Because super glue is strong enough, especially if we're talking of plastic models. Because the bond of plastic glue (when works properly) is definitive and could be a disadvantage if you change mind and want to assemble the model in a different way (not a true issue with Malifaux models as options are almost non-existent, but with GW ones it could be handy being able to disassemble a model if you want so). Also a big model that accidentally falls, if glued with superglue will often breaks at a joint, if glued with plastic glue it's melted together and will snap in the most fragile point, not necessary a joint between two parts, thus eventually very tricky to fix. And in the end because for the issue explained in the opening post, I think can't trust plastic glue.This said, it would be handy to have the option for the more fiddly parts. So this is why I'm asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solkan Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) Generally speaking, you have to use plastic solvent glue and cyanoacrylate glue in completely opposite manners.With cyanoacrylates, using more glue than needed results in a thick layer of brittle glue that breaks easily. With plastic solvent, using less solvent than you need results in not enough plastic being melted and produces join that is brittle and breaks easily.If you don't think you can trust material (either one), you're using it wrong. Edited October 23, 2015 by solkan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabbi Posted October 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 So your hypothesis is that I used too few plastic glue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 So your hypothesis is that I used too few plastic glue?That seems like the most likely explanation if you experience the bond failing. The minis I glued together over 10 years ago using plastic glue are still doing super. I don't think I have ever had a model assembled with plastic glue break at a joint unless a great amount of force was applied to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddywhack Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 I had the same issues while using Plastic Glue. When I tried using too much, too much plastic would 'melt' and could cause issue with the sculpt. Even then the bond was never as strong as I was used to with regular old zap-a-gap.I've switched back to just using zap-a-gap and haven't regretted it at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabbi Posted October 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 Fine. It seems I'll stick (eh? eh? ) to the old trusty super glue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solkan Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 So your hypothesis is that I used too few plastic glue?Depending on which type of plastic solvent you're using, you could also simply be waiting too long while you assemble the pieces and the solvent is evaporating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabbi Posted October 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 [...] you could also simply be waiting too long while you assemble the pieces and the solvent is evaporating. This could be very true... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamby Posted October 24, 2015 Report Share Posted October 24, 2015 as most plastic models are made from some form of styrene plastic you should ideally be using some form of dichloromethane solvent (i'm a model maker for a living so trust me please), this stuff can just be brushed on, apply a little to the piece before you put them together and then just bruch some around the joint. It takes a little while for the bond to harden but it will be very strong. Zap a gap is fine to use on plastic as it is formulated for use with plastics but most superglues will make the plastic brittle and cause more problems than they solve. GW platic glue is weird and i think because of how quick it sets it doesnt really create a good bond, i dont know for sure as i havent used it in years 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabbi Posted October 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 GW platic glue is weird and i think because of how quick it sets it doesnt really create a good bond, i dont know for sure as i havent used it in years So, wanting to try another brand, what would you suggest? How is Tamiya one, for example? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamby Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 Pass, i don't use any of them. you need to find a hobby supply shop in italy that sells something like this http://www.ema-models.co.uk/index.php/plastic-weld-cement-12x-57ml.html obviously you probably don't want 12 pots 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabbi Posted November 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2015 Ah, too late! I've already bought the Tamiya one, the "thin" one, and well, it evaporates VERY quickly. Anyway, I've assembled a couple models with it. Waiting some week to check if bond doesn't break.Anyway, thanks for the suggestion. A quick search didn't provided any seller in Italy, but I found some from UK on eBay. I'll check their stock and see if I can manage to gather a few things to order to justify shipping costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmod Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 The Tamiya Thin Plastic Cement is very good stuff for detailed plastic like Wyrd, just saying... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guslado Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 A while back when I ran a retail shop for GW there was a bad batch of the Thin Plastic Glue that did exactly what your a describing, where it seems like it almost crystallized instead of melting the plastics together. Basically the manufacturer of it screwed up the formulation. I suggest just getting a new bottle of glue.I personally switched over the the Tamiya Thin Plastic Cement a few months ago and I love it as much as a man can love a plastic cement. If you're not familiar with it, it's the one in the glass bottle with the green cap and tiny little brush inside. It's about half the price of the GW Thin Plastic Glue and you get so much more. The brush applicator is marvelous and works great with the tiny little bits Wyrd models are known for. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabbi Posted November 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 I personally switched over the the Tamiya Thin Plastic Cement a few months ago and I love it as much as a man can love a plastic cement. If you're not familiar with it, it's the one in the glass bottle with the green cap and tiny little brush inside.That's the one I got 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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