LoS and Engaement

[Amporo]

Yesterday we had a game and we had an issue with LoS and Engagement crop up. Although me and my opponent agreed this was engaged, other players at the time didn't think it was. From what I under stand from the rules, you need only one of the two LoS lines and be within engagement range [base to base] for an attack to be made. However others were saying you need both LoS from a model to have an attack. They went on to say even if I was right, I'd get a negative flip on the attack due to attacking through another model. However I cannot see in the rules anything mentioning melee attacks [the hash symbol] getting a negative, only ranged attacks [with gun symbol].

So here in lies my questions:

In example 1; can my oxfordian mage attack the Karnataka sniper?[yes image name is spelt wrong] If so, is there any negative flips on attack or damage?
In example 2; same again.
In example 3; can the rail golem [ht4 range 3"] attack over oxford mage [ht3] to hit the mouse? If no, what if mouse was Ironsides instead? [same ht as the mage]

[SuperFly TNT]

Yes you can make a Ml attack in all 3 cases as you have LoS. The taller model can see the shorter one and vice-versa (as long as one of them is taller than the intervening object). There is no negative to the attack. 

Edited September 14, 2015 by SuperFly TNT

[Philosfr]

LoS only requires one line to be drawn to the target. Engagement range requires "LoS" and at least one model having a melee engagement long enough to reach the other model. Models never give cover, only terrain does, so unless LoS is completely blocked, ranged or melee attacks are not hindered by intervening models.

So the short answer, all three examples the answer is "yes, they can attack". If you are within reach of a Ml action and have at least 1 LoS line to the target, you can attack with no penalty.

[Amporo]

Cheers for fast replies, I'll wait and see if more confirmations come in!

 

[Bengt]

When it comes to LoS, what you want show those guys is the picture on page 40. It clearly states you only need one line.

[solkan]

Yesterday we had a game and we had an issue with LoS and Engagement crop up. Although me and my opponent agreed this was engaged, other players at the time didn't think it was. From what I under stand from the rules, you need only one of the two LoS lines and be within engagement range [base to base] for an attack to be made.

What do you mean "the two LoS lines"?  There are an infinite number of line of sight lines between two models.  And only one unobstructed line is necessary for line of sight.  From page 40:

Line of Sight

A model has LoS to a target if at least one of the LoS lines drawn between the acting model and the target does not cross intervening blocking terrain or models.

From above that quote in that column on page 40:

To determine LoS from a model to a target, the players will draw a series of imaginary straight lines from the acting model to the target model. These LoS lines are drawn from anywhere on the acting model's base to anywhere on the target's base.

 

Edited September 14, 2015 by solkan

[Amporo]

Mhmm was alot closer than that. At the time we didnt allow the attack, and it didnt change the outcome, but was trying to get clarity on the LoS and engaement ruling anyways. I was just trying to clear up the LoS ruling in the game for future reference.

 

Yesterday we had a game and we had an issue with LoS and Engagement crop up. Although me and my opponent agreed this was engaged, other players at the time didn't think it was. From what I under stand from the rules, you need only one of the two LoS lines and be within engagement range [base to base] for an attack to be made.

What do you mean "the two LoS lines"?  There are an infinite number of line of sight lines between two models.  And only one unobstructed line is necessary for line of sight.  From page 40:

Line of Sight

A model has LoS to a target if at least one of the LoS lines drawn between the acting model and the target does not cross intervening blocking terrain or models.

From above that quote in that column on page 40:

To determine LoS from a model to a target, the players will draw a series of imaginary straight lines from the acting model to the target model. These LoS lines are drawn from anywhere on the acting model's base to anywhere on the target's base.

 

Ah cool from the examples in the rule book Ive always assumed its from the edges of the base!

[santaclaws01]

Just to add to what everyone else has said, you are right that attack actions can never be affected by cover. Soft cover and Hard cover only affect  attack actions. The rules for cover are on pg 41.

[Amporo]

We always assumed models are soft cover, as you don't have a clear shot. At least we all been running on the same rule modifications in our group

 

[Mach_5]

As has been mentioned, models can block LoS but can never give other models cover from shooting attacks. 

Melee attacks never suffer from cover penalties.