Master Matchups Per Faction

[MrKittens]

Hello all,

 

A friend of mine and I were discussing after a recent game about matchup strengths in the Guild (and across the game overall).  We were discussing  what should be prioritized more: countering opposing factions with our Master choice, or building a list to specialize working with the schemes/strats.  On the one hand, if your Master is poorly equipped to handle what an opposing faction throws your way, you won't be able to get your job done if everything dies; on the other, if you don't have a list suited to getting VPs, you'll lose anyway.

 

My question is twofold:  What do you prioritize for first (assuming you've chosen Guild, of course), Master choice and then building a list which works for that Master and can function with the schemes/strats, or figure what models would be best for getting the VP available, and slotting in the Master most applicable for that list?

 

Also, that having been said, I'm very curious as to what everyone thinks of our seven Masters' best counter-faction power.  I'll even include an easily copy-pasted block, for your convenience!

 

The following Master is often strong against the following factions / I often take the following Master when my opponent declares the following faction:

 

Justice:

Perdita:

Sonnia:

Chuck:

Lucius:

McMourning:

McCabe:

 

Thank you for your time.

[ArcticPangolin]

Sonnia: Arcanists. I just seem to struggle against them in general but Sonnia goes some way to making it all better.

[flip_my_joker]

I've been playing a lot of McCabe/lucius lately and find support masters have no natural match up. its the crew choice which defines there strength. its tough to explore this question without stating the obvious. Dita vs Neverborn. Sonia Vs Arcanists. LJ vs Resurs

I had fun with McCabe vs a Lynch crew the other day. Sidir can "By your side" and intercept attacks heading for targets with brilliance, neutering the offensive. Assassinate was out and Turf war. McCabe stood in the middle with El Mayor from Francisco and his +2 Def tanking illuminated (at DF9) then giggling when Sidir took the big attack, saving my better cards for the worse attacks. then healing with Elixir of life and Fransiscos "just a flesh wound" plus Sidirs "always there". lynch was suckered into.the fight and Sidir was thrown at him with a McCabe push and cut his head off. it was a good scheme pool and strat for McCabe.

[Chumbalaya]

It should also be noted that the various Masters considered counters aren't bad against other factions.  Lady J, for example, can cause Arcanists/Outcasts fits by deleting scrap/corpse markers.

 

In general, I pick my master and build my crew to accomplish the objectives.  I'm still learning the other masters and factions, so I focus on what I do know, which is my own crew.

[admiralvorkraft]

While each faction has certain trends they also each cover a huge breadth. A Seamus crew, and a Kirai crew are completely different, and a crew built to counter one won't do much to counter the other.

I think that it's generally a better idea to use models you know well to accomplish the schemes and strategies available, and bring a variety of abilities to the table so that you have some flexibility. 

 

But then, what do I know?

[Machiavelli]

While each faction has certain trends they also each cover a huge breadth. A Seamus crew, and a Kirai crew are completely different, and a crew built to counter one won't do much to counter the other.

I think that it's generally a better idea to use models you know well to accomplish the schemes and strategies available, and bring a variety of abilities to the table so that you have some flexibility. 

 

But then, what do I know?

 

100% agree. While I have limited experience with number of masters here (Lady J being the main, followed by Lucius), my experience with wargaming has taught me that knowing your strengths is often superior to knowing the enemies weaknesses. That way, if something goes wrong, you know how best your crew/army/faction can handle it, as opposed to what you could do to the enemy if you had the resources. Plus, with any luck based game, it comes down to your own skill with your faction that is often the main decider.

 

I kinda see it as a good offense versus good defense argument, being that knowing your own strengths is the offensive aspect while knowing an enemies weaknesses is the defensive. Ideally, you'll know both, but with the number of options available I'd work on getting a real handle on a couple of masters and using them to the best of your ability. 

 

The best players in any game I've ever met always know exactly what they can do, can't do, and do best. Their skill is like a scalpel with absolute precision. They're not too worried about their opponents lists/armies/abilities because they only need to know the basics to counter it with their own ability for the game. Play to your strengths

[Adran]

You often need to be careful with this, as you might come up with - Justice -Take against Ressers. And then you find the resurectionists go -Facing Guild. Pick a list that doesn't need corpses, so Tara, or Kiria or Molly and your selection of Justice is possibly sub optimal.

 

I'd focus a large amount of my crew into getting me VPs, and unless I know my opponets crew/style well, I wouldn't focus too much on countering them in crew selection.

A few good general choices to shore up weaknesses is probably good. somethign that can remove corpse counters and some conditoon removal should help cover the bases against Ressurs

[LunarSol]

Focusing on strats and schemes means you're playing on more reliable intel.  The factions have enough master variety to keep just the choice of faction from being something telling in terms of build suggestions in a lot of cases (I actually think this may be limiting to the game's ability to expand and can see advantages to declaring 2-3 masters after faction, but that's a topic for another day).

 

If you want to get into trying to build a leg up though, you probably want to start with your opponent.  Once you know your opponent's faction choice and the set of schemes you can consider what master would be optimal for those schemes and build to counter that.  For example, against Ressers, Lady J might only be optional in things like Reconnoiter where you're liking to see Nicodem or another summoner.  Facing a pool with a lot of schemes that reward scalpeling out specific models, Sonnia can often be the better choice to deny Belle Lure's with Counterspell.

[The Zinc Lich]

I agree that you should be picking your list based primarily on what strats/schemes there are available, but, depending on how well you know the local meta, you can get a leg up on some factions that rely heavily on certain trends.

 

Ressurectionists is the best example. I play Sonnia vs. them 100% of the time, and I have yet to be disappointed. She blows up incorporeal models (even ones hiding behind walls), and Counterspell Aura wreaks havoc on the kinds of lists I see getting played all the time. For one, Sonnia, and crew members nearby, simply can't be lured by belles. There have been times when that, alone, has been enough to cripple lists that relied on Lure to be used to make up for slow speed. Plus, Ressurectionists are the only faction to have important casting actions on every master. Grounded Magic is guaranteed to not be a dead spell in every Resser matchup; forcing the masters to pay a 2-card surcharge on any attempt to summon never fails to make me smile. I also tend to run the Freikorps specialist with her, which brings nice corpse counter control, and Witchling Stalkers mean that the Hanged are (just a little) less scary.

 

I also want to lean heavily on McMourning for the Arcanist matchup. I know that not everything in the faction has armor, but I have yet to see an Arcanist list that is completely without it as an ability, so his ability to hand out "precise" is like printing money. If "money", in this case, was "murdering everything in line of sight. Its also nice to have a master that is very fast, and can keep up with Collette on her scheme marker binges. Even if the enemy doesn't pick Collette, it is nice to know that your pick for the matchup is never going to instant-lose to her.

 

You also have to consider the opposite: what masters give me a weakness towards what factions. I will never voluntarily play Hoffman in a game against the Outcasts; Leveticus freaking loves armored constructs. They typically pay for their ability with lower wounds on average, and Levetucus' unnatural wasting simply ignores it. The Hoffball has trouble keeping up to him popping up all over the board, and he can summon off the scrap counters his victims leave behind. Not every game will be against him, but the Viktorias and Hamelin both have good answers for armor baked in (the Viks get Mark of Shez'uul, and Hamelin has bleeding disease), so I just think it is smart to leave the Hoff at home versus them.