Summoning from the death of a model

[Math Mathonwy]

We had a Terror Tot kill a Nurse in the vicinity of Barbaros with the Rapid Growth Upgrade.

Now, do you remove the Nurse before or after summoning the Young Nephilim? This was important since you couldn't summon on top of the model.

The card simply says (slightly paraphrased but left all the important words unchanged) "If a friendly Tot kills an enemy model with an Attack Action, Summon a Young Nephilim into btb with the Tot. Then, sacrifice the Tot."

[James Folkerts]

I believe the ruling is if a model is killed it is removed immediately so the nurse is not in the way just the Terror Tot as it is removed after the summon.

[Math Mathonwy]

I believe the ruling is if a model is killed it is removed immediately so the nurse is not in the way just the Terror Tot as it is removed after the summon.

Thank you! Is this in the FAQ or does this follow from the rulebook text somehow? Or is this something that Justin has said on the forums?

[The Godlyness]

Well most summoning things from killing things says before removing the model summon in b2b. Grow has no such wording so the model won't be their and the young can get placed Then the tot is removed.

[Math Mathonwy]

Well most summoning things from killing things says before removing the model summon in b2b. Grow has no such wording so the model won't be their and the young can get placed Then the tot is removed.

But is it just reminder text (like "in play" or like "towards" vs "directly towards") or is it of real significance?

I swear I'm not trying to be obtuse or difficult, I just really don't understand how the timing works and don't seem to find anything official on the matter.

[Kadeton]

It's not reminder text - most summoning abilities key the position of the summoned model off the position of the model that was killed, so the summon has to be placed before the model is removed. Grow instead keys off the Tot, so there's no reason to delay the killed model's removal.

[Tuttleboy]

It's not reminder text - most summoning abilities key the position of the summoned model off the position of the model that was killed, so the summon has to be placed before the model is removed. Grow instead keys off the Tot, so there's no reason to delay the killed model's removal.

This. So place a corpse marker in B2B with Nurse (if needed) and take her off the board. The place Young in B2B with Tot and remove Tot. No corpse from the Tot because he's sacrificed by Rapid Growth.

[The Godlyness]

It's not reminder text - most summoning abilities key the position of the summoned model off the position of the model that was killed, so the summon has to be placed before the model is removed. Grow instead keys off the Tot, so there's no reason to delay the killed model's removal.

If only I could write as eloquently as you.

[Math Mathonwy]

I still don't understand why "if kills, summon" happens after removing the killed model (at least if going by book and FAQ text). I think that an easy case would be made for them to be simultaneous (and thus the acting player could decide the order). The fact that there is an absence of text that is in other summons doesn't prove it one way or another IMHO.

But I guess I'll just play that way as people seem to have a strong consensus (even if I don't understand what it is based on).

[zFiend]

You should just believe what you are told and not to question. It's like that other book in the world..

Edit: we even have the main man from that book here giving us answers, not everyone gets that you know.

[The Godlyness]

Under damage it says. Paraphasing here

When a model hits 0 wounds immediately remove the model as killed. So once the nurse hits 0 wounds it's gone. No ability or trigger says before removing the model do something. (Sans placing a corpse marker)

So the timing is nurse take damage to reduce it to 0. Drops a corpse.remove model. Then tot summons a young.

[Kadeton]

Basically, don't over think it - if nothing says "before the model is removed..." then just remove it as soon as it's killed.