Vermicious Knid Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 Under no circumstances would I play someone who has an entire crew made up of non-wyrd miniatures. I understand using proxies while testing a new model before purchase or temporarily while waiting for funding to purchase or because the model hasn't been released yet. I don't think it's appropriate to expect anyone to play you if you show up with a list of models from other companies and tell me that "Yeah, this Andrew Ryan is totally Leveticus." Fun idea, yeah (I even quite like the Big Daddy/Lazarus thing) but not fair to your opponent or to Wyrd. Good lord - is it hard to keep your balance on that high horse? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nogoatsnoglory Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 Nogoatsnoglory, Hans has a massive sniper rifle so using him as someone without a long range rifle and with 2 handguns is going a lot off track. Maybe very short term, but there are a ton of cool figures made by countless companies that have 2 handguns. I have the female metal version of the gunsmith and shes awesome. The metal male has stupid looking guns so when I get him its conversion time...sigh. It's the lowest of priorities though since I have a few 2 revolver gunslingers from other companies painted and based. To be fair I'm not terribly attached to keeping him as a gunsmith. I only use it for fun games, nothing serious, but you are totally right on how ti can be misleading and not for serious use. The only one I was concerned with was the spiders. It's more so I wanted the model so I could paint him, but wanted to get some use to justify the purchase. I understand his limits. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 Never met anyone that hardline about proxies. I wonder what his thoughts on Vassal would be as it is all proxy models and only requires the smallest of expenditures to play an entire faction. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiralngCadavr Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 Good lord - is it hard to keep your balance on that high horse?Yeah, that's a bit harsh. I'll let anything fly if it's done with thought (though I of course understand how it wouldn't be legal in a tourney setting). To be fair I'm not terribly attached to keeping him as a gunsmith. I only use it for fun games, nothing serious, but you are totally right on how ti can be misleading and not for serious use. The only one I was concerned with was the spiders. It's more so I wanted the model so I could paint him, but wanted to get some use to justify the purchase. I understand his limits.Yeah, I woulnd't think twice about allowing the spider proxy. Big robot spider on the right base size, that's even from the same mini line, and that's unmistakable for what it's based on since it's got an illegal base size for that- what else do you need? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermicious Knid Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 Yeah, that's a bit harsh. I'll let anything fly if it's done with thought (though I of course understand how it wouldn't be legal in a tourney setting)I'd even go a bit further than that - I would allow thoughtful and skilled conversions even in tournament settings. Why is that? Because this game has such a low model count, that if you can't keep track of a converted/proxied model or two in a MALIFAUX game of all things, then you are probably not terribly bright and your odds of actually doing well in the tournament aren't good anyways. I know that's a harsh viewpoint, but this has always been a hotbutton topic for me. I find the idea that players can't keep track of 6 models (give or take) to be extremely insulting and belittling, and too often it discourages painters/modelers from excercising their creativity. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiralngCadavr Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 I agree about most of it, but do feel like timed events and tired players can lead to it being frustrating to not immediately recognize models. The counterargument, though, is that many models have several sculpts now, and more with puppet wars (I believe mindless zombies have the most with 8), so that's already a huge amount of info on variants (across a few hundred minis in the line), so, assuming the conversions/proxies are recognizable, that isn't much more.There's the argument that there can be against proxies just 'cause someone could stick a half-dozen differently colored space marines on 30mm bases and call it a crew, so it's protecting against needing to tell them "no" and having them upset at your judgement call (instead, "the rules say no"), but I've never run a tournament so don't know how often stuff like that comes up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGHTHATER Posted October 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 I'd even go a bit further than that - I would allow thoughtful and skilled conversions even in tournament settings. Why is that? Because this game has such a low model count, that if you can't keep track of a converted/proxied model or two in a MALIFAUX game of all things, then you are probably not terribly bright and your odds of actually doing well in the tournament aren't good anyways. I know that's a harsh viewpoint, but this has always been a hotbutton topic for me. I find the idea that players can't keep track of 6 models (give or take) to be extremely insulting and belittling, and too often it discourages painters/modelers from excercising their creativity. Well I'm glad your "passonate" about the issue as I am as well (Which isn't supprising I started the topic). I just mainly want to see proxies and conversions at least have the right equipment or very close to. The figure SHOULD BE on the right base size at least. A figure with M-16 shouldn't be Lilith, or Justice...unless theres a massive sword somewhere on the model and then thats still not great. My proxies are pretty good overall I think: (there in my gallery if anyones that interested) This guy with a Winchester rifle is Nino.... This guy with 2 revolvers is Santiago.... This guy with Dynamite is Paco Loco.... Stuff along that line. Nighthater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requirement Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 Good lord - is it hard to keep your balance on that high horse? Balance comes easily when you are this great. In all seriousness, there is a difference between trying to pass a proxied crew and a proxied model. Proxied models are understandable and entirely justifiable, especially for the short term (I don't particularly even need the models to make that much sense in the super-short-term. For one game I can let Lilith have an AK.) A proxied crew, while impressive when done well, just says to me you want to be doing something else but kind of liked these rules. If you want to play them, have at it, I don't judge. It's just not my bag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGHTHATER Posted October 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 A proxied crew, while impressive when done well, just says to me you want to be doing something else, but kind of liked these rules. Requirement, Why say this? If people wanted to do something else, instead of playing Malifaux...they would. No one holds a gun to my head and forces me to play Malifaux, I play because I enjoy it (Modified 1.5 Anyway). I think people proxing whole crews enjoy the game just as much, or maybe even more as they are putting even more effort into playing the game by switching out all the models to models they prefer when it is a well done theme. You are right about one thing a proxy or two is usually better then a whole crew of proxies just because it causes a little less confusion overall. Nighthater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requirement Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 I was being facetious and it didn't come across very well. Apparently I am trying to cultivate a terrible community opinion on me in this thread. Hahaha. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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