Loveless Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 My friend and I did a crew box v. crew box game (30 points) of Tara v. Rasputina last night. Things to note before digging in: 1) The table was about 50% terrain, so that wasn't an issue 2) We're a bit new and still trying out Masters and such, but we have the basics down 3) We're assuming a larger game with more model variety would improve the situation considerably, so if that's all this is, feel free to confirm. Effectively, he couldn't really do anything to me (Tara) and it was a bit of a mess. Standard deployment, Reconnoiter. I had Line in the Sand and Bodyguard (Karina), he had Line in the Sand and Frame for Murder (Wendigo). I had the upgrades on Tara that gave her Pull the Void and the one that let her Initiative...I forget if those are the same ones now. Anyway, I let him go first. He hurls an Ice Gamin downfield with the Ice Golem in an effort to set up Ice Mirror. Tara activates (so I can use Eternal Moment) and Pulls the Void on the lone Gamin, burying him. He does a bit more positioning. Karina activates and wanders near a building, then mutters some obliterating nonsense and sets the buried Gamin on fire. More positioning and a spell or two off from Raspy while the Void Wretches either move up or nom away at the buried Gamin. Nothing Beast moves upfield - no target for Casting Expert. Tara repositions a bit on her second activation. Turn 2, Wendigo gets buried, Wretches eat it or move forward. Karina gets far enough into the board to be valid for Bodyguard, proceeds to attempt to set the buried target on fire. Tara and the Nothing Beast blast things as the latter now has things in range. Tara uses second activation to start dropping scheme markers and reposition. Raspy is heavily trying to rip Tara apart with magic, to little success due to Heartless and some good flips. Rest of the turns are pretty similar. A target gets buried, Karina and Wretches dispatch it, Tara or NB rip things apart. A convenient flip of the Black Joker saves Tara from getting blasted into bits around the end of turn 3. End of the game, Tara has 2 wounds left, NB has 4 left, rest of the darlings are untouched. Gamin are all dead, Wendigo is dead, and the Ice Golem is damaged (called it at the end of turn 4 due to time and NPE). I keep hoping I misread something or I was doing something wrong, because it took very little to bury and destroy a model a turn - which, after two repetitions of that, freed up enough of my resources to run about and do schemes and strategy. Looking at other Arcanist models, there are certainly choices that would be less prone to Glimpse the Void - are Wp duels just overly effective against Gamin and Golem? I definitely threw Tara out there - burned through SS to stay alive, but stayed alive. I probably could've/should've used the (0) to return to the deployment zone at some point. Just a bad match-up, player error (not sure where though - we read over the cards about 3 times before we pulled off any of the abilities), or just needing to move up in SS size? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolomyte Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Well, a few questions that were not immediately clear from the batrep. Did your bury multiple models at once? cause that's a no no with glimspe. So I mean in reality you should have been able to bury / kill one thing a turn, and gamin's are pretty hearty for wretches to kill. Gamin are not the best for resisting willpower duels, but its a TN 13, so he should have been able to cheat in a 9 to avoid it, he may have had poor hands. He made a bad tactical decision attacking tara with raspy instead of the NB. Incorporeal does not effect raspy's casts, so she probably would have killed it in a single round of attacks. at least with average hands and average luck (do that activation first while your hand is full, so his defense is crap) Box on Box Raspy usually does a pretty decent job at hosing tara. NB dies and your real hitting power is gone. the golem stays near raspy so that if tara moves up to attack her it smashes her. He did good with frame for murder, he got 1vp off of that, I would have bodyguarded the golem since you don't really have a way of hurting it effectively once NB is dead. Those would be my thoughts without seeing the game play out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Brightside Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 So your opponent couldn't deal with a TN 13 Simple Duel? Sounds like resource allocation (cards) and hiding in cover should be his top priority. If you were casting with Tara, He should have hid for her first activation as she can't cast Pull the Void if it's her second activation (as no friendly models would be left to activate). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Shine Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Additional question to the above: What kind of terrain was it? If its 50% buildings and walls, thats an unfair terrain set-up to rasputina; who need LoS. The terrain should be an even mix of open/blocking/dense so it doesnt favour melee OR ranged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolomyte Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Good points above. what was his activation order the first turn. wendigo and two gamin should have went, then the golem would throw a gamin. so he should have had four activations before you had a chance to activate tara and bury the thrown forward gamin. that would mean probably the NB and wretches would have went already, maybe karina? and the wretches. then he could have theoretically mirrored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loveless Posted July 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Only buried one thing at a time - I really didn't have any reason to kill anything, so I was just taking out little things in order to get the step-up on activation. Terrain was a mixture of soft cover and buildings. I may have accidentally thrown out another pull the Void at the end of turn 1 - I don't recall. Most of my second activations with Tara were repositioning and occasionally dropping a marker. Given I had initiative the next turn, the two activations blend together in memory. Oops if I did, but I know you can only use it during her first activation (though the sword and gun are free reign). I guess I don't know how you plan on him getting 4 activations before Tara gets a chance to activate, given I activate Tara first in my crew... He activated the Golem first and chucked the Gamin into position, planning to Mirror as I moved up. Probably not the best lead-in, but it was his first time with Raspy. Good call on using Raspy against NB - that would have been the better choice. However, I spent most of the NB's turns threatening a flank...I honestly don't know why he didn't magic him away - there was a Gamin well within Mirror range and such to do it... He had a few bad flips, but yeah - Wp 4 v TN13 was giving him fits - not surprisingly, he'd need a 9 or higher to deal with it. I also had pretty good cards on getting the Pull the Void to go off, so the initial resistance was hard to hit as well. I'm also curious about how you expect the game to sort of "be over" once the NB goes down - he didn't really do anything for me. Most of my damage came from burning and biting buried models - Pull auto-plinks for a damage. Additionally, if he was using the Golem to protect Raspy up-close, what's to stop me from just burying the Golem? He doesn't exactly have a great Wp and I've got a handful of ways to put him in the ground... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rythos42 Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 I think the reason is that no one expects Glimpse to be a game-winning plan! And if Glimpse isn't winning your game, then in a box-match the NB is your only remaining offense...and he'll fall over to a stiff breeze if Raspy decides he shouldn't be on the table anymore. I don't have much to suggest, because I find that Rasputina destroys me everytime...but I've never played against her with Tara. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uktena Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 If your friend is Iron Nerd, he's in another thread wondering what happened also. Play 50SS to see the balance stabilize a decent amount. Starter games can be very weird with just boxed crews, particularly with Raspy. Ask me how I know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loveless Posted July 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 If your friend is Iron Nerd, he's in another thread wondering what happened also. Play 50SS to see the balance stabilize a decent amount. Starter games can be very weird with just boxed crews, particularly with Raspy. Ask me how I know! I did not realize he was asking on here - I thought he was asking on the facebook group XD Yeah - we discussed going up to 50SS and trying it as it would likely be a bit better. I just really wasn't seeing any major downsides - my Wretches never got close enough to be damaged by magic (they never had to be) and my NB never did enough of anything to "pull aggro" I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uktena Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 I did not realize he was asking on here - I thought he was asking on the facebook group XD Yeah - we discussed going up to 50SS and trying it as it would likely be a bit better. I just really wasn't seeing any major downsides - my Wretches never got close enough to be damaged by magic (they never had to be) and my NB never did enough of anything to "pull aggro" I guess. I play with Raspy quite a bit. When all of your hiring pools are considered, you'll find games more free flowing. Just remember Strats and Schemes! Also, feeling bad is a mistake. I pounded Hamelin all through the beta and felt bad. Now he makes me poo blood. No substitute for practice! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolomyte Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Yeah, I've never had the whole glimpse the void thing win me a game. It's been decent, but the wretches void attack is a 2 action, and it's at MI4, so its never really been that devastating (Granted better against fast stuff). I mean you should have hit 50/50. most of the times it should have been a negative flip to damage, and with armor 1 it should take 2 hits from the wretches (with decent luck of getting a weak and a moderate, or better yet a severe) for the burning to kill them end of phase. (armor does reduce burning. not poison, why , I don't know) against the golem it would have taken probably 3 turns of attacks from the wretches and successfully making him burning to kill him. and if he kills one of your models, the golem pops back out. So raspy would have killed one of your models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uktena Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 I'm not above harpooning my own armored model and cheating down damage to take Slow and nullify Fast when facing Tara. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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