Killjoys healing ability

[Flying skunk]

If killjoy kills a model and that model does damage to killjoy does killjoy get to gain that health?

[The Godlyness]

Short answer yes. Long answer maybe.

If you kill a Witchling stalker he would explode first. Then you would heal. But if hum exploding reduces you to 0 wounds then no. There is a call out box on general timing in the rule book. If it's a trigger that does damage it resolves first. So again he might die before healing.

[Joel]

Activating model goes first, then defending model, so no.

[The Godlyness]

I forget the wording sometimes. I thought it was defenders triggers attackers triggers. Defenders abilities attacker abilities. Then first player second player.

[Bengt]

The fact that the healing is part of his attack action makes it go before any triggers and passives of both Killjoy and any other models.

 

Into the Fray (Vicky Blood's heal on kill ability) on the other hand is passive so would go after any triggers (if there are any defensive triggers that do damage on successful attacks? Most seems to be on failed attacks), but before passive abilities of the defender (e.g. Black Blood).

[The Godlyness]

The fact that the healing is part of his attack action makes it go before any triggers and passives of both Killjoy and any other models.

No just no. Triggers are resolved first. If killjoy declares onslaught and his first attack kills the defender onslaught goes first. You must make that second attack. Its not a May it's a do it now. Triggers are resolved first before abilities. (If they occur at the same time) for instance onslaught would happen before black blood happens.

But the call out box on page 30? Says acting models abilities first so unless it's a defensive damage trigger (think Jacob lynch) then no he won't heal if he kills the model.

I got it backwards the first time.

[Bengt]

No just no. Triggers are resolved first. If killjoy declares onslaught and his first attack kills the defender onslaught goes first. You must make that second attack. Its not a May it's a do it now. Triggers are resolved first before abilities. (If they occur at the same time) for instance onslaught would happen before black blood happens.

But the call out box on page 30? Says acting models abilities first so unless it's a defensive damage trigger (think Jacob lynch) then no he won't heal if he kills the model.

I got it backwards the first time.

Now you lost me. Why does Onslaught matter? The healing is part of the attack action, not the trigger.

 

But if we are talking about Onslaught, since it's against the same target surely it fizzles if the target died from the first attack.

[The Godlyness]

It's an after damaging trigger. It specifically says it's done before the model is removed. In the case of hitting an already dead model it just burn a cards. But his healing would not actually trigger till Thu model was actually removed. (Or rather he heals then things explode ie stalker gamin etc)

But it opens questions like if the model is at 0 wounds did I damage it with my second attack. Would it cause black blood to go off. And if so would it go off the first attack as well. Even though the model is no longer on the table after resolving my second attack.

Lets just say issues. But his healing ability is part of the attack but triggers happen then his ability. Then other models abilities.

[Verdeloth]

Its specified that when a model is at 0 wounds (killed) its immediately removed. So any other triggers that require the same target will fizzle like triggers that make you take another mi ect?

[Csonti]

Its specified that when a model is at 0 wounds (killed) its immediately removed. So any other triggers that require the same target will fizzle like triggers that make you take another mi ect?

 

The description of triggers' timing is quite definitive on this.

 

 

•After  damaging: These effects happen after step 

5 and only if the target suffers 1 or more damage 

from the Action. These effects are resolved before

the damaged model is removed if it was killed by 

the damage.

 

So as stupid as it looks, Killjoy must hit an already dead model again in case Onslaught was declared.

[Bengt]

It's an after damaging trigger. It specifically says it's done before the model is removed. In the case of hitting an already dead model it just burn a cards. But his healing would not actually trigger till Thu model was actually removed. (Or rather he heals then things explode ie stalker gamin etc)

But it opens questions like if the model is at 0 wounds did I damage it with my second attack. Would it cause black blood to go off. And if so would it go off the first attack as well. Even though the model is no longer on the table after resolving my second attack.

Lets just say issues. But his healing ability is part of the attack but triggers happen then his ability. Then other models abilities.

 

My point is that Killjoy's heal from Cleaver is not an Ability, Ability is a game term that refers to the stuff on the front of the card under the heading "Abilities". It's part of the Action and will resolve as soon as you know the target is dead, before Onslaught if it was declared (you can't resolve after damaging triggers until you know the final damage dealt, and subsequently if the target is dead or not).

[The Godlyness]

Ok different way to look at it. The attack action has to resolve but before it does triggers happen.

[Tuttleboy]

Even if he makes the Onslaught attack he'll still heal the damage from the first attack won't he? This is kinda interesting in case he misses the Onslaught attack against a model with Riposte and he dies to the Riposte attack. Does he go to 0 wounds then heal and end up living?

 

 

Living in as an homicidal overweight zombie is still living, right? 

[The Godlyness]

No the first attack has not resolved. Nothing is stopping or lack of a better word interrupting his death. He gets riposted and dies then if the defender was at 0 (onslaught attack) Would die.

[hypoking]

Even if he makes the Onslaught attack he'll still heal the damage from the first attack won't he? This is kinda interesting in case he misses the Onslaught attack against a model with Riposte and he dies to the Riposte attack. Does he go to 0 wounds then heal and end up living?

 

One question that, given that it seems to come up on a weekly basis, I should hope is on the docket for the faq.

[The Godlyness]

It's killjoy's fault. He keeps wanting to not die. But yeah I agree telling people I can push their dead model with teddy or that I can reposition before you bleed or explode gets nauseating.

[hypoking]

Once had Sybelle spank Loco to death then had him walk to next to Ditta before he blew up. Not my proudest moment.

[The Godlyness]

That my friend is awesome

[Kadeton]

No the first attack has not resolved. Nothing is stopping or lack of a better word interrupting his death. He gets riposted and dies then if the defender was at 0 (onslaught attack) Would die.

 

Uh, not sure about this. The Onslaught trigger resolves, but all that does it queue up another Attack Action after the current one. Don't you still have to completely resolve one Action before moving on to the next?

 

Wish I had my book with me.

[Bengt]

Well the first Action is not considered resolved until any caused Actions are also resolved, box P38. But I still contest contend that you resolve stuff in the main body of the Action before Triggers, unless they explicitly say "Do X after this action has resolved" or something like it. 

 

Edit: Managed to use opposite word.

[Kadeton]

Yeah, that callout box caused a ton of arguments in early M2E which I thought were eventually resolved by, essentially, treating every Action as a separate self-contained unit in a chain, with Triggers and other Action-spawning events inserting new Actions into the sequence as necessary, but each one being entirely resolved before moving onto the next. However, I could be misremembering.