Witchling Stalker's Burning Damage (and general questions on damage effects)

[SpiralngCadavr]

So, there are numerous similar cases, but this is the one that came up, so it only made sense to refer to it.

 

Things Witchlings damage are also lit on fire.

 

When is this resolved, regarding model death? Can Sonnia Violate a model that is killed by an attack that would cause burning damage?

 

Also, in general can triggers that cause effects on the target be resolved if the model dies from the damage? For instance, can the Peacekeeper's harpoon pull a dead guy towards it before it drops to the ground as a corpse or can Sybelle dominate a soon-to-be-corpse to make one last attack? Is there some nuance in the language that defines weather or not effects take place if a model dies?

[zFiend]

I think this specific discussion has ended in a cease fire so to speak. And awaiting official answer. Collodi was ruled to be able to do a one more bidding even if the target was reduced to (0) wounds so I'd propably think that at least Sybelle would be able to Comply even if it killed the model.

[SpiralngCadavr]

Oh, couldn't find another discussion, thanks, though. Seems like a fairly big gap/ambiguity in the rules to have had around so long...

[zFiend]

Without a doubt it sure is. Hopefully it'll get cleared soon.

[The Godlyness]

It the trigger is "after damaging " then it is done before is removed as killed. Abilities like searing mark are done when damaging so if you do damage it gets fire. If it kills a model it had to damage it's on fire. So reincarnation happens. If a switching explodes and kills a model it applies burning and reincarnation happens.

[zFiend]

It the trigger is "after damaging " then it is done before is removed as killed. Abilities like searing mark are done when damaging so if you do damage it gets fire. If it kills a model it had to damage it's on fire. So reincarnation happens. If a switching explodes and kills a model it applies burning and reincarnation happens.

 

And after that the discussion starts again does it really go that way and one of the threads already got closed due to overheating So better just wait and hope it's in the next FAQ?

[The Godlyness]

Rulebook "after damaging" triggers read. It happens.

[zFiend]

Again those are your opinions. They could be understood the other way and that's what has gotten threads closed when that starts going around. 

[The Godlyness]

Let me make this as simple to understand as possible. Stalkers have a drain magic trigger on their melee. It is an after damaging trigger. Rulebook says after damaging triggers are done before the model is removed. So that means the other player must discard a card before they remove their model. But for this to happen damage occurs, therefore searing mark is applied.

So if in good conscious you can tell me the stalker does not apply burning before the model is removed then Idk.

[zFiend]

That's how we have been playing it, that it does get the burning inflicted when a Stalker dies. Last time it was asked it was said that there were some complications on the timing etc if you really wanted to start bickering about it. That's why we should just wait for an official answer other than start bickering about it. 

[The Godlyness]

How much more official is the rule book itself? There are no complications this happens that happens. I was originally the one debating after damaging but then I took a long look at the book and it's clearly written there. It brings up some other unanswerable questions sure (ie healing from 0) but does a stalker apply burning is not one of them. That is very clear.

[wizuriel]

Reincarnation happens though when a model is reduced to 0. So even if burning happens after damaging a model to 0 wounds, that would still be the wrong time to apply violation of magic imo.

[zFiend]

I was originally the one debating after damaging but then I took a long look at the book and it's clearly written there.

 

Um.. So I might misunderstand what you are saying, but how I read it is, that you were debating against it, then you read the rules made your interpretation of the rules and now there's no room for discussion on the matter? It's just like that, it happens, clear as day.. Because you switched sides?  

 

As Wizuriel posted, there are different ways to understand how this goes, this has been up before and usually they get locked down as the discussion gets heated. That's why it would be nice to get an official answer how it goes. Your word is not official though.

[Mako]

Let's keep the thread away from condescension, insults, and anything else of that variety. These threads usually get heated when someone says 'this is what it is' and someone else says 'you're being arrogant', or some variation on that. 

 

Each person is expressing their opinion, nothing more. There is no need to tell people their opinion is not good enough for you when you express your own.

[sharpobjects]

Here is another long thread regarding this discussion for reference. Dropping it in here to assist Justin & Co. should they wish to address it in May.

 

http://wyrd-games.net/community/topic/98990-sonnias-violation-of-magic/?hl=%2Bviolation+%2Bmagic

[entropolous]

Reincarnation happens though when a model is reduced to 0. So even if burning happens after damaging a model to 0 wounds, that would still be the wrong time to apply violation of magic imo.

This.

It does not matter if the model gets burning before it dies, as reincarnation is initiated my a model being reduced to 0 wounds, not dying or being killed, or being removed from play.

[Thaarup]

So, there are numerous similar cases, but this is the one that came up, so it only made sense to refer to it.

 

Things Witchlings damage are also lit on fire.

 

When is this resolved, regarding model death? Can Sonnia Violate a model that is killed by an attack that would cause burning damage?

 

 

In the case of the Witchling Stalkers ability Searing Mark, it is done when you damage something. Meaning It is added at the same time as the damage.

It is not an "after damage" ability.

 

 

Searing Mark: All models damaged by this model gains the Burning +1 Condition.

 

 

[Spifferson]

The problem that I have had is the use of "timing of triggers" (laid out in the rule book) to explain the timing of abilities (not discussed in the rule book).

 

This question was brought up before the last FAQ, but WAS NOT addressed.

[Spifferson]

further more, if a model is reduced below 0 wounds is this equal to "0" wounds? there are several references to "0" wounds while the rule book mentions a model can be reduced to "0 or fewer wounds"

[Spifferson]

further more, if a model is reduced below 0 wounds is this equal to "0" wounds? there are several references to "0" wounds while the rule book mentions a model can be reduced to "0 or fewer wounds"

[The Godlyness]

Timing for abilities is addressed they happen after triggers. There is a call out on one of the pages. Iicr defenders happen first then attackers. And if you the most literal of them all something would gave to do exact damage to reduce it to 0 for her ability to work. I think we all can agree that is stupid.