Maniacal_cackle

What are people thinking for round 2? Reva would normally be my go-to in this matchup (except I always seem to face Outcasts on leylines xD). But without the OOKs & Versatiles, she feels a lot more mediocre on a corner leylines. Seamus is great on this map, but faces the same issue (although I am tempted by like 3 Belles, Effigy with Fate upgrade, Dead Rider, and whatever else). EDIT: No nurse seems super rough, but I guess the threat of killing is more important than actual killing anyway. ... Let's be honest. I'm clearly just going to play Molly for the rest of the series xD

Haha, how epic!

And I suppose it is possible that he would be farrrr too weak if a single stun could take him out, given how easy it is to grab stat 7 stun.

Also that's interesting to hear that Lilitu were very useful. Most people dismiss Lilitu as not great models, I think.

Odd. Almost every round so far I've not matched attacker/defender with the opponent.

Yeah, but hitting him twice is already quite the challenge xD But yes, it is technically doable. EDIT: note it may be stun three times, as Mordrake can activate and drop the stunned the first time.

Yassss, go Davos!

This 15 stone limit is really forcing some tricky decisions! Good stuff

Well, with 5 agree reacts, this is one of my more popular posts, so maybe that constitutes a lot? I dunno xD

I like it! Would love more stuff to benefit smaller models. Just want to see the board swarming in hounds xD

What was that?

For reference, the base crew I would have liked to take into that scenario if not for the restriction would be: Molly & Machine Anna Lovelace Dead Rider Archie Crooligan Crooligan The terrain wasn't ideal, but I think I could have done a better job of hiding Archie + Dead Rider. Molly/Anna/Machine could form a bubble so that no summons could take place there, and crooligans of course are virtually impossible to reach early game (and then give me supreme activation control). As is, I was struggling to get enough card draw AND activation control, and you really need both in this matchup. So have to have two minions for this matchup, I think (Molly can reactivate minions, so each minion gives me another activation control potentially). I did think maybe summoning would fill that gap, but not so much xD Makes for some awkward targeting for Ivan if he doesn't want to end up somewhere where he might get Dead Ridered/Archied/Murder Crooliganed/Storied.

It is a bit ambiguous under the rules, but different people play it different ways. I play it that you do it after, but most of my opponents play it that the crooligan does it before. I always say I'm happy to play it that way, but it is actually stronger for me - the Crooligan can bonus action scheme markers away, so doing it before the teleport means I can remove a scheme marker, teleport away, and remove another. Yup, works that way, and I think it's been covered on the rules forums. Basically auras only don't stack on the affected model. In this case, the model that dies isn't the affected model (it is just the one generating the effect). I think it is probably the model with the upgrade that is 'affected' and gains a stone. Yeah, he may have been too focused on Brocken, but also I play a very 'u' shaped game against Ivan. I basically shape my crew so there are only a few options to hit, and if he goes too deep he risks being blown up by the crew. Since most of my threats can attack twice at 14+ inches, he has to be a bit careful (especially if he accidentally takes 9 irreducible from Molly). And he did get some solid Tools, but I think they were often like 11 and 12s. Getting the timing to line up perfectly for a 13 or red joker is hard. Regardless, it wasn't much compared to my extra ~6 cards a turn. The Rogue Necro was super deep in my crew turn 1, and end of turn 1/2 I handed him the Dead Rider to kill, and then he followed up by killing Archie... And Rogue Necro too xD So yeah, he just nuked all of those by turn three I think. After that, though, Molly was guarding the rest of my crew and I kept eating the shadow markers that would let Ivan dive my crew (and I don't think he realised how powerful crooligans are, as realistically it may have been a valid strategy to let me kill Ivan in exchange for killing my crooligan, although he didn't know it was claim jumping at that stage). Molly doesn't have much condition removal beyond nurses (which are OOK, so no go this time). The 1 damage ping was enough to kill Archie, so it forced me to activate him xD So it may have been lucky coincidence. But even after that, the possibility of a puncture trigger, or wearing down my crooligan/effigy/any hard to kill model (I had three hard to kill models), or even just blowing up my Necrotic Machine since it doesn't have hard to wound... Was a lot of pressure for me to play around. I had to have heals available constantly (not to mention the 20-40% chance that he flips all moderates and lucks out for high damage). He couldn't take Effigy, he reached his 15 stone cap on versatiles and OOKs (special rule for the tournament). Both our crews would have been VERY different if not for that, I think xD So he'd have had to drop another option (and Emissary is a bit iffy against Molly, since she can do 9 irreducible to it). Granted, if he knew I was going to just throw away my Dead Rider, then effigy/emissary would have been a great pick xD I think it did like 8-12 damage on Ivan? Didn't matter, he healed it back up. I think it may have harmed the Archivist as well. Gibson just sat behind other models so Molly couldn't see him. Something got the Archivist down to 6 life, so Molly just killed it in two hits. That was probably caress + siphon.

I generally agree (and that's how I play it). But I can't find anything in the rules to justify that, other than "the game gets pretty wonky if you don't play it like this." However, there are some funky differences. Measuring for aura distances typically happens at the time of generation. For example, the Investigator has two different timings for measuring: For determining if a corpse, scrap, or scheme marker is dropped within 4, you determine that at the point of generating the effect (aka, immediately, not after resolving). For determining what models are eligible to be pushed, that happens at the time of after resolving. So there's a measurement that must be done when the effect is generated (when the marker drops) and when the effect is resolved (after resolving you move something). I think you capture it well with the word decisions. If you're making a decision, it is probably when you are actually resolving the effect. If you're checking to see if an effect happens at all, you're probably measuring when you generate the effect.

Good point, it is probably specifically against Ressers thing. We're much better in melee than he is. I was kind of hoping he would take Eva. I would have put an intel token on her and then when she came to interact I kill her on the spot (especially since Molly can eat her Quarantine marker). Vernon and Welles is solid tech as well, but I think I used my WP attacks a grand total of four times throughout the game. Austera and Twigge were super annoying. They could be so useful from super far away, so I could never find a safe place to kill Austera and Twigge. Constantly threatening damage really shaped my activations, as I had to be aware of randomly take 1 (or even 3) damage that I didn't want to take. They can create scheme markers at range (superrrrr good since I didn't want to cross the centre either). And the card draw/card selection was extremely painful for me. That said, I can see that dropping an operative for her would have been a good plan. Eva seems more effective than an operative at least (except operatives can't be treated as enemies!!! Repeatedly messed with me - no pouncing strike trigger). You can double soul stone with it, but it doesn't matter much as I didn't want to go into their bubble anyway. He did get two soulstones off of it, though. The NO REAP panic button is a good point, I'll watch out for that next time and line up two attacks to make sure I land it. That said, in Recover Evidence I was really not looking to kill his master unless he spoon fed him to me. Well, note my crew composition has two models that he can make Brockens off of (Molly with serene countenance, Dead Rider with Willpower 7). DUA/Umbra seems like a keyword that relies on landing a few extremely impactful attacks. If your hand is 11/11/12, and I have 12/12/13, you might not be landing any hits depending on the cheating order. Additionally you telegraph when you're going for the big play (aka, setting up to get two crows), so it can be hard to land a summon unless you really work for it. Each turn a lot of severe cards were ear-marked for slowing down Ivan (which is fine, a lot of turns I drew 4-6 extra cards). Distracted/focus was something I suspect he could have done a lot better with (although I think he was doing other shenanigans with those models that felt decently impactful). But note Molly can just eat conditions at 8 inches anyway, so it isn't necessarily a good idea to super stack against her anyway. Operatives were annoying to kill (because I couldn't treat them as enemies, get pouncing strike, etc). They were scary for Molly (they ignore serene countenance). But ultimately they couldn't get close enough to the action without risking death. So I'd not rate them (except in this tournament where you have to take keyword stuff anyway). He got two brockens and a daeva. Brocken was like turn 1 or 2, off my Dead Rider positioning. Nearly lost me the game but I killed it pretty fast since they're pretty easy to kill (I tried to single activation with Archie but didn't have the right cards). The Daeva was incredibly annoying. It attacked my Forgotten Marshal and the movement trigger to get away from it was super annoying. I essentially just wrote the Marshal off as dead and forgot about it, then the Daeva killed it and ran off to score another point. very good. The last Brocken killed Molly I think, but after she activated on turn 5 so didn't matter. Since it was freshly summoned, it couldn't drop a scheme which was really bad. So overall he had two impactful summons, so I was pretty happy with that outcome of trying to block his big plays.

Every time Kharnage writes about Nekima, Im sad I never picked her up.

Oh, he scored three recover evidence, one claim jump with Mordrake (but then I attacked him last activation of the game for 3 damage with a crooligan, so he couldn't cheat). And one spread them out (but my crooligan picked up a marker to deny a point last activation of the game). So last activation the crooligan got claim jump + take prisoner, and denied claim jump + spread them out... 4 point swing in one activation xD

In this game, we were limited to 15 stones of versatiles and OOKs, so Manos wasn't there 😧 But yeah, having them shunted off to the totem would maybe be okay. Shunting them to a near invincible totem was not cool xD He is basically immune to anti-heal auras as well! (since he teleports before healing). The pool: Recover Evidence on Wedge, Automatic Lighthouse map (terrain made a huge difference, I picked my deployment zone poorly). Claim Jump (Mordrake, Crooligan) Take Prisoner (Mordrake) Spread Them Out (for Ivan's team) Sabotage Breakthrough His crew: Ivan & Mordrake Flush With Cash on Ivan (I think Hidden Agenda might be better) Austera & Twigge Archivist (very solid model!!) Gibson Flush with cash Operative x2 (not great models I would have thought, but were remarkably annoying). Those built in positive flips is really good for pinging away damage without relying on the cards that you're feeding to the rest of the crew. Nocturne (ehhhh... Not a fan of these as a hire). My crew: Molly & Machine Dead Rider (saved Molly with Ride With Me when she was stupid, then died) Rogue Necromancy (killed an operative and took its token, then died) Archie (did some useful beats, then died) Forgotten Marshal (summoned a bit, then died) The Whisper Carrion Effigy (did a few heals, mostly ran around). Crooligan (scored 2 points). Definitely regretted not having a backup crooligan to just throw away and let it die. They're so useful!! Molly is pretty tricky to play without OOKs & Versatiles (since she is a control/denial master, so she does a LOT of tech picks), but Ivan also seems a bit weaker in keyword so balanced out.

Oh, the only thing I'm a bit salty about with the crew is that the master is essentially immune to conditions. Stunned and slow would be really good tools against Ivan if you could use them. I don't really like design where a model is just immune/near immune to the natural counterplay for it's kit.

Ahhh, that's what you mean. Yeah, that's relatively rare. Forgotten, Tara, Coryphee Duet, Cadmus, and I can't think of any others? Although it doesn't come with free activation control at least. I'd call for a nerf so hard if it did xD

But insignificant models are ignored for strategies and schemes, so they would by default be ignored for pushing the wagon I think is the point.

Didn't they just remove it for more than two in a row? Viktorias, accomplice, companion (so all of Outcasts) can still do it.

Ended up tying at 5-5! I took Dead Rider, Archie, Rogue Necromancy, Crooligan, Effigy, Forgotten Marshal. Wasn't too impressed with the Marshal, but it was the best option in keyword. I basically threw away Dead Rider by mispositioning Molly and being forced to save her with Ride With Me (so lost the Dead Rider instead). He took Archivist, Austera, and a bunch of keyword models. The keyword models seem pretty lacklustre overall, so Ivan seems pretty hampered this month. That said, Forgotten is super hampered as well, since we thrive on teching exactly to beat the opponent. Overall, super fun game, and I had a great opponent! You can read some more impressions here: https://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/151096-english-ivan-umbradua-keywords-discussion/?&page=6#comments EDIT: Also Anna Lovelace would have been SO GOOD. Really looking forward to playing a normal game against Ivan.

Some further thoughts on English Ivan. Just had my second game against him in the first round of the February tournament (Recover Evidence). Some more thoughts about the keyword, and beating it (mostly repeating past impressions) The keyword may be a bit weak into Recover Evidence, since it has to not only kill you but also go pick up the markers. As I've said previously, the crew seems weak to anything that forces it to cross the centreline. The crew is a bit 'one-trick pony.' If you can deal with English Ivan, you really shut down the crew (just don't spend a whole bunch of effort giving him slow). The crew is so card hungry. You can really shut down a lot of their turns just by having a superior hand. Feels really bad for Ivan when all his attacks miss by 1, for example. Hidden Agenda feels like the best upgrade for him, to smooth this out. Being able to cheat with the card hidden seems very good. Archivist is soooooo good. The +2 initiative often means your opponent doesn't even bother contesting it, and also having another min 3 beater in the crew that can operate so efficiently is very solid. Also lets you siphon life off Mordrake if you're on Recover Evidence to drop the token in your deployment zone (which again, might not be the best plan). Austera and Twigge seem like a good tech piece to help with the crossing the centreline issue as well as to improve overall card quality. But 8 stones for card selection is a LOT. The bonus action is also just devastating at times. Not being able to dodge the damage is intense. If you don't have hard to wound, I imagine then it gets super scary having a consistent "I do 5 damage to something 18" away through terrain and ignoring LOS" Alpha strikes seem pretty awful against Ivan, and aggression in general (unless you can be aggressive with your whole crew). Slow and steady seems to be the way to go against Ivan, which is a bit counterintuitive for a 'summoner.' Activation control is super good against Ivan. Overall, the crew still feels very beatable. I got a tie. I had massive misplays early on, and he had his misplays later in the game, which overall balanced out. I think if the terrain had been a bit more favourable and I hadn't misplayed, I may have even felt favoured to win. Was much easier on the forest heavy map against him (since forests are dense, you can hide behind them and then run through them). Feeling very good about the Molly vs. Ivan matchup still, looking forward to more games.

I just had a game against English Ivan. I'll try to write up about it soon!