Vangerdahast

@AskM3L8r: In this pool, I would have taken Outflank and Deliver a Message (even if the second point could have been difficult versus Parker).

@Ogid: Approximately what you said. Generaly I activate Doves first. So one Dove Walks once in order to be a bit out of deployment zone (3 or 4''). A model activates and moves in the middle of my table half  (if there is no big threat). Colette activates late in turn. She walks once and is in range of my target, then Presto Chango the target with the Dove. The target is 3 or 4'' of my deployment zone, so in chargge range of the Duet. The Duet activates last and charges and attack, split the Duet. The opponent has no models to activate or his model is too far away from the Duet. Reform the Duet and makes two attacks versus the target. If I have enough movement and the terrain permits it, Charge through with the Duet on each activation, for 1 free damage. The target should be dead by then. If not, win initiative turn 2 (cheating can be necessary), activate the Duet. Most of Minions and Enforcers can't survive to six attacks by the Duet (a good Hand helps a bit).

If Colette is not in range of the target with one walk, she Presto Chango herself with the friendly model who stands in the middle of my table half and she should be in range of the target. It requires a bit of positionning but I prefer it to slinging forward my Duet which can be then beaten by unactivated ennemy models.

Models I have killed this way: Teddy, Bishop, Peacekeeper, Talos, Mounted Guard, Queller, Executioner..... Not so bad for someone who don't like killing.XD

@Ogid: Using a big card to Presto Chango an ennemy near my deployment zone is better for me as the ennemy is separated from his allies and you avoid any retaliation the next activation.

But you are more agressive than me. The two options are valid.

@AskM3L8r: I have a Parker player in my meta but still haven't got a game versus him. Versus Parker, I would avoid taking Schemes requiring Scheme Markers. I find that Detonate Charges is a difficult Scheme and never take it. Even with Parker stealing Markers you have managed to score twice Harness the Ley Line so it is possible. What were the other available Schemes?

Concerning Deliver the Message, I can confirm that the opponent will never score the second point if you can Bury Colette in Turn 4 (using Twist Ending Trigger on Sword Trick if need be), then unbury her last in Turn 5 where she can't be engaged. Or even bury her with Sword Trick on her last action of Turn 5, she will be killed at end of game but as long as Assassinate or Reckoning are not in play, it is not a problem.

You say that the Strategy was Plant Explosives and scored 4 points but you also say that your opponent denied last plant explosives. Dont sure to understand well. Can you explain a bit more?

Concerning the Doves, I don't use them like that. Some other people have aleady suggested this use of the Doves. But for me, they essentially are unbury targets for Colette.

I generally hide them behind terrain and make them fly in the backlines of my opponent where Colette can unbury later (when all ennemy models are engaged) to score her own points or steal opponent's VP. For example, in Turf War by flipping an unguarded Strategy Marker to neutral then to friendly.

They are also good to kill a weakened ennemy. For example a Minion or an Enforcer with 1 or 2 Health left. The opponent generally doesn't want to cheat versus a stat 4 Attack and keep his high cards for other things.  And with the Overheat built-in Trigger you can kill a Hard to Kill model with 2 Health left. Already killed Taelor and Fuhatsu with Doves, for example. They can also go killing cheap summons like Tengu.

There is an easier way of getting 4 or 5 Soulsotnes a game with the Soulsotne Miner + Magical Training. And in the same time the Miner is still useful to score Vicotry Points. Not wasting AP is always good as they are one of your ressources to score victory points.

The more we discuss about Colette, the more it seems that there are different ways of playing her. Which is good for the Performer Keyword.

Concerning the Toolkit, perhaps I will try to swap a Showgirl for it. And yes, I generally prefer running all around instead of killing. I play wargames and don't like killing.🤣

Generally, I try to self bury Colette in Turn 4 and activate her last in Turn 5 (using Pass Tokens and let the intiative to my opponent) in order to unbury her where I need. To score Take Prisoner or bury an opponent who has chosen Claim Jump, for example (many more tricks here).

For a Reckoning game with Assassinate, Vendetta, Dig their Graves, I will certainly use some of your ideas (even if I am generaly reluctant to go out of keyword).

For other games, it seems to need so much set-up that I won't score my VP during that time. And I generally score fast to put pressure on my opponent's thoughts (a habit gained during tournaments and in M2E).

I will let you know how it went when I will play a Reckoning game.

And you are right with your last sentence. I generally prefer spreading my Crew to avoid being murdered by agressive Crews (one of my opponents play generally Misaki + Masked Agent with Fuhatsu and 2 Samurai, you don't want to bubble in that case). Spreading allows me to divide the ennemy forces that can't stay together if they want to chase all of these speedy dancers. It also gives me more options to unbury Colette where she is most needed to score or deny points.

I generaly play the killy game only if I have a good Hand Turn 1 and there is a juicy target that can be Presto Chango'ed near the Duet (Enforcer or Minion beaters that have already activated).

Thanks for the advices.

I forgot about Preparations. Need to try this trick in a future game. Generally, I use the 4 AP to attack a model that Colette has teleported near the Duet with Presto Chango in turn 1.

Concerning the 12 AP, I think it is pushing it too far. The 8 AP is still a thing but I prefer to wait until the end of turn in order to avoid retaliations versus a single Coryphee. And that is why it gives my opponent the opportunity to attack the Rider before it happens and make me spend my Fate Tokens. Perhaps I could be a bit more audacious.

And unfortunately I don't play Mannequins because I don't succeed to make them work (certainly a matter of playstyle).

I rarely Focus with the Duet and don't see how you get to Focused +3 by itself. If you can develop (just to add a new trick to she show).

For the AP, I think you are talking about the Mechanical Rider with Soulstone Cache. Right? I used the Trigger of Revel in Creation in my first games but now my opponents generally target the Rider to make me use my Fate Tokens to reduce damage instead of reactivating the Duet.

Thanks all for your answers.

@AskM3L8r: I have played around 70 games with Colette and still enjoy her playstyle. I think I can play her as long as the M3E will last. My concern is more about having people that wouldn't want to play versus her.

@extremor: Agree with you. But it may be a part of the problem. Some of my opponents have very few games of M3E and they think that Colette's tricks are near unstoppable. That's why I said "Is she a NPE? (for new players, should I have added).

My tougher opponents are those who play the most. And I can confirm you that Seamus is a hard match-up for Colette (even if I don't mind scheming with Colette or the Duet). And Misaki can be a nightmare to fight (but I still pick Colette versus her with goods results).

@Ogid: As said above, I play her frequently in any kind of Strats and Schemes. Some are a lot harder than others. I think she can do well in the majority of strategies with the exception of Reckoning. But even in this case, I consider her if the Scheme Pool favors her. In this case, I generally score 1 or 2 points for Reckoning and try to score all 4 Scheme points and do my best to keep my models alive (it works more or less) and deny my opponent's Scheme Points. I don't think shes is a niche Master (I can be wrong).

I mainly play Colette since end of Open Beta and while I frequently win with her some of my opponents think that she is very hard to face and presumably OP.

I am quite certain that this is not the case. Personaly I would rank her Top Tier (not OP Tier). But from what I am reading here and there, she seems to be rarely played in tournaments and seems to be perhaps Middle-Tier.

During Open Beta, there was huge debates about her and the Duet but at the same time, battle reports showed that she was losing frequently (something like 3 wins 1 draw 6 losses).

In the present thread about what would need an errata in Arcanists, there is nothing about the Performer Keyword.

So what people think about her real power level?

In my local meta, I generally face the following Masters:

Guild: Lady Justice - Sonia Criid

Ressers: Seamus - McMourning

Arcanists: Kaeris

Neverborn: Dreamer - Marcus - Lilith - Nekima (soon for this one)

Outcasts: Viktorias - Parker (soon for this one) - Tara (once) - Leveticus (soon)

Bayou: Ulix - Zipp - Lacroix -Zoraida (once)

Ten Thunder: Asami - Misaki - Mei Feng

Crossroads Seven

My Colette Crews are:

Colette

3 Doves

Cassandra

Coryphee Duet

Mechanical Rider OR 2 single Coryphees

Angelica OR Soulstone Miner + Magical Training (OK this one his perhaps OP but I don't play it each game)

Showgirl  OR Mannequin

Soulstones: Between 5 to 7

My toughest games are versus Ten Thunder (no surprise here) and Ressers. These players are also the ones who play the most in M3E. Perhaps a bit of an explanation about the difficulties the other players face versus Colette.

Generaly, the main concern is about her movement shenanigans, her strong denial power and her being unkillable. I have already given hints about ways to handle her to my opponents (as in this topic:  https://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/145523-colette-performer-m3e/).

It bothers me if people don't enjoy their game when facing her. I have other Masters to play with (Rasputina, Mei Feng, Hoffman, Perdita, Sonnia, Croosroads Seven).

Do people think that I should perhaps play Colette less versus players that have only a few games of M3E? Can she be a NPE experience?

It happens in the Neverborn faction book: the first story takes place in the Star Theater (and Colette makes an appearance as well).

Great news! Hope we can develop more Malifaux in France now. Translated cards would be awesome.

The French community is not huge but a french version is something that can improve our number of players.

25 minutes ago, grundil said:

Yeah agree with you. I keep enjoying carlos but ice dancer really need a move bonus action which doesn't require ice pillar.

I have the same feeling for the Ice Dancer. Less efficient without numerous ice pillars.

23 minutes ago, grundil said:

I don't know a lot Rasputina but i see the same thing with colette. The performers with two keywords (ice dancers and carlos) both seems better in the other crew, even if i keep playing carlos.

Hi Grundil!

Agree with you about Carlos and Ice Dancers. They seems far better in their other Keyword.

I have seen the battle report of your game versus Molly. I would have taken Mechanical Rider and a Showgirl instead of Carlos and Ice Dancer + Magical Training.

But I don't really know what could be made to make both of them more appealing in Performer Keyword.

Thanks, that is exactly why I posted this. To see if local metas have different approach about Strategies and Schemes.

So for your meta Reckoning is an easy one. Don't you build elite crews for this strategy in order to limit the the opponent's possibilities to score (tough Enforcers for example).

Why is Turf War difficult? Minion heavy crews let you kill often to easily neutralize ennemy Strategy Markers?

I have made some statistics with the results of the tournament I played yesterday and I would like to know what are people's feelings about the statistics hereunder and if different metas have other feelings about the perceived difficulty fo Strategies and Schemes. Informations about the different rounds can be found in the last post of this thread: https://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/147563-france-bordeaux-malifaux-in-bordeaux-saturday-07-december-2019/

Turns played each game

3 Turns: 29%

4 Turns: 50%

5 Turns: 21%

Strategies

Reckoning

1 player scored 0 point

11 players scored 1 point

4 players scored 2 points

I think there is no surprise here as this strategy is generally perceived as the hardest to score.

Plant Explosives

1 player scored 1 point

11 players scored 2 points

3 players scored 3 points

1 player scored 4 points

No surprises here, this strategy seemes the easiest to score.

Turf War

3 players scored 1 point

12 joueurs scored 2 points

1 player scored 3 points

Less easy than Plant Explosives but not very difficult

More to say about the Schemes

1- Asssassinate: 1.38 point Chosen 8 times

For me, a surprise. I did'nt think it was so easy to score.

2- Outflank: 1.25 pt Chosen 8 times

Quite simple to score, no surprise here.

3- Claim Jump: 1.25 pt Chosen 8 times

As Assassinate, I thought it was harder to score.

4- Deliver a Message; 1.23 pt Chosen 13 times (available in two rounds)

Quite simple even if the second point can be tricky to score.

5- Search the Ruins: 1.16 pt Chosen 19 times (available in two rounds)

Despite being slighty nerfed by Gaining Ground always a popular choice quite simple to score.

6- Harness the Ley Line: 1 pt Chosen 10 times

A popular one even if I think that it is difficult in a tournament. It needs 6 interactions and if you don't play 5 Turns, can be complicated to score twice.

7- Take Prisoner: 1 pt Chosen 8 times

I think that the end point  is easy but the reveal point can be tricky to score.

8- Power Ritual: 1 pt Chosen 5 times

Not very easy but even more in a tournament. It requires a lot of movement and interact and some crews will really struggle with this one. Not playing full 5 turns makes it even harder.

9- Dig their Graves: 1 pt Chosen 1 time

Difficult to judge the difficulty but not a popular choice.

10- Detonate Charges: 0.80 pt Chosen 5 times

Seems to confirm that this is a difficult one.

11- Breakthrough: 0.50 points Chosen 2 times

A bit surprised that it wasn't taken more often. Seems difficult but I personnaly think it is an average one (more easier if you have a movement-based crew).

12- Vendetta: 0.42 pt Chosen 6 times

Even with the slight buff from Gaining Ground, it seems to stay one of the hardest to score.

13- Hold up their Forces: 0.33 pt Chosen 3 times.

Not very popular but I thought it was a relatively easy one especially versus elite crews. It was available with the Reckoning Strategy. That can explain why she hasn't been chosen more often.

Do your have similar experiences or are you surprised by some of these statistics. Of course, no final statement can be made as it is only collected in one tournament but can it influence your selection of schemes? Please share your feelings and comments about this.

Here are the results of the tournament:

Name                          Faction - Master(s)                           TP            Diff.          VP

1- Korgal                  Ten Thunder - Misaki                      9 PT            +5             14
2- Vangerdahast      Arcanists - Colette                         7 PT            +4             16
3- Ulrian                   Resus - Seamus / Mc Mourning   7 PT            +4             15
4- Zanghjiao            Ten Thunder - Misaki / Asami      6 PT            +4             17
5- Lidiaz                   Guild - Sonnia                                 6 PT            +4             15
6- Kuroshiro             Ten Thunder - Youko                     6 PT            +2             11
7- Hugodasse           Guild - Perdita                               4 PT              0              11
8- Lyanae                 Outcasts - Parker                           4 PT              0              11
9- Deadbrain            Neverborn - Dreamer                   4 PT              0              10
10- Sycophante        Bayou - Zoraida                           3 PT             -1              13
11- Jellyroll               Outcasts - Parker / Jack Daw      3 PT             -3              11
12- Pantoufle           Neverborn - Marcus                     3 PT             -4              10
13- Belial                  Neverborn - Titania                      2 PT             -1                9
14- Zergeniel          Outcasts - Viktorias                       2 PT             -2                9
15- Gryff                  Bayou - Ulix                                   1 PT             -5                9
16- Gilel                  Guild - Crossroads Seven              0 PT             -7                7

Lists with Masters OOK were banned. Players with two Masters have used each one in different games.

Strategies and Schemes were:

Round 1
Deployment: Corner
Strategy: Reckoning
Schemes: - Hold up their forces - Outflank - Harness the ley line - Search the ruins - Deliver a message

Round 2
Deployment: Wedge
Strategy: Plant Explosives
Schmes: - Detonate charges - Take prisoner - Power ritual - Assassinate - Vendetta

Round 3
Deployment: Standard
Strategy: Turf War
Schemes: Breakthrough - Claim jump - Deliver a message - Search the ruins - Dig their graves

In France, the number of turns played in a tournament are often a problem. Yesterday, we had:

3 Turns: 29% of games

4 Turns: 50% of games

5 Turns: 21% of games

71% of games have reached at least Turn 4. Not that bad.

Later I will post in Malifaux Discussion some statistics concerning the Strategies and Schemes (how many points were scored and how difficult or easy they seem).

If some people are interested in knowing the lists played for each Master I can answer to that but I won't be able to tell which list was used in a specific round.

As in other countries, it seems that Ten Thunder are a strong faction but there is also a few surprises like the rank of Perdita which is often considered weak.

Feel free to comment.

Agree with Gnomezilla. The Soulstone Miner can be easily "nerfed" with new schemes. When Gaining Grounds Season 1 will be launched, some models will certainly become less efficient and others ones more efficient (and they will become the new "OP" threads).

Even if it don't solve all the problems, that's a good mean to rebalance the game. Still some models may need an errata despite Gaining Grounds.

It seems that Carlos is available there: https://www.gadzooksgaming.com/search?q=carlos

Rules PDF: Page 23, left column, Step 3: Targeting, last sentence of second paragraph: A model may not target itself with an Attack Action.

 Part 2 in Chronicles 33. Page 52.

@whodares: As you are in Begium, this shop in France has all the faction decks except the Neverborn one: https://www.philibertnet.com/fr/8469-malifaux

(the Bayou one is only shown on the Bayou page). They also have some M3E models.

Edited the first two posts to include use of Gaining Ground season 0.

Some informations here: https://www.wyrd-games.net/special-orders

But they haven't started yet.

Nathan Caroland has replied here for the rulebook: