Colette (Performer) M3E

[korgal]

I take this opportunity to create a topic about Performers. I'm surprised it's not done yet.
Can you share your experiences on this team?
Here is one of my experiences with Colette.

Since the passage to the V3, I find that this team has become very strong because of the strategies and the strategies are almost all about the interaction or the pose of tokens. Further Colette has become almost unalterable with "Fade Away".
Colette from burying herself. Do you have any feedback on that?

Because the trigger is done after the triger of fade away

[Kadeton]

Colette is certainly quite difficult to kill for most opposing crews. That's not particularly unusual any more - there are a number of Masters now who are extremely hard to take out.

I think you missed out a bit of your question, but from the previous thread it looks like it was about Lady Justice and her Stunned trigger. Colette can still Fade Away from this, yes - if she couldn't, she'd be very short-lived! If you have some way of putting Stunned on her before Justice's activation, you'll have a better shot at killing her, but I'd suggest that Justice's efforts would be better spent killing off everything else. If you really want to end her, some Death Marshal Recruiters might help... but you don't need to. Killing the enemy Master doesn't win you the game.

Performers (other than Colette herself) are pretty squishy, relying on a few special survival abilities to compensate for their generally low Health and middling defenses, and are relatively easy to kill. Once her crew is depleted, Colette herself doesn't do much. She's mainly there to be an annoyance and a tarpit to protect her crew, so that they can get things done - if you focus your attention on trying to kill her, you're playing right into her hands.

The Performers' scheme marker potential is indeed very strong, as they're quite specialised in that area. They trade that off by being below average in the killing department, so it's unlikely that your crew will be under significant threat. The strategies take this into account to some extent - killing gives you a "free" interact to neutralise your opponent in Turf War, the Performers don't much like taking the damage from Corrupted Idols, and carrying Explosives puts a big target on their heads (and they struggle to get them back off enemy models).

My advice: keep practising against them, and pay less attention to Colette - she's just the illusionist trying to distract you from what's really happening, as she should be.

[Ludvig]

I'll definitely go rummaging through my model case for models that don't allow enemy triggers when Colette is declared. Now that the master is known it's going to be interesting to see if resistance triggers have decreased in value somewhat.

[dannydb]

Colette is essentially a big distraction, save for her unburying and handing out mass distracted and moving her models around, colette does very very little.

 

i'd say the easyist thing to do is to just ignore her, unless you have very very specific tools to go after her 

 

after all she has no triggers on her movement, so attacks like Noose or "Up We Go!" get round her defensive tricks, as does any attacks that stop defensive triggers.

 

alternatively just blast/shockwave/pulse her to death, she only gets triggers off attacks that target her, not for someone blowing something up next to her or splashing damage off her friends 

[Vangerdahast]

 

My Colette is Korgal's Nemesis.

 

Concerning our last game, it was a Turf War in Flank Deployment. My schemes were: Search the Ruins and Deliver a Message. Korgarl's Schemes were: Breakthrough and Deliver a Message.

Other schemes were: Dig their Graves, Detonate Charges and Harness the Ley Line.

He has nearly exterminated my Crew. At the end of the game, I only have Cassandra at 1 Wound left and Colette at 2 Wounds left. He killed Angelica, a Showgirl, the Mechancial Rider and the Coryphee Duet. I only killed the Scales with two Doves (and buried Perdita last turn after she activated to kill her but it had no impact on the outcome of the game). He had Lady J., Scales, Brutal Emissary, Domador, Pale rider and  Perdita. But as Kadeton said: killing is not winning the game, I won 7-4 (missing only the last point of Turf War). Without one mistake, Korgal could have scored one more point.

 

In my experience, Colette is killable (not easily but it is possible), you just need the right tools. For a Guild player, the Pale Rider is an awesome answer (the Dead Rider also for the Resurectionists) to that problem. With 14' of movement and a 6' aura on Turns 3, 4, 5 (if he don't use Fate Tokens for other things) which deals 2/3/4 IRREDUCIBLE damage, youy can deal 8 damage to Colette. Use it late in Turn 3 (after Colette activated), win intiative Turn 4 (cheat if necessary) and activate the Pale Rider first. Other solution for Guild players: the Jury and Recruiters who can target a buried Colette (her Def is only 5). It needs to have Focus in order to negate Serene Countenance but can be done relatively easily. Another solution is the Executioner. His attack stops DF Triggers. With Lady J., you pay the tax but it is a solution. I think Lady J. can be a good counterpick to Colette. As dannydb said indirect damage are great versus Colette and armored models (Coryphee Duet) as well as ping damage. I have bad memories of games versus McMourning (Poison + Sebastian) and Lilith (Black Blood).

 

Cocnerning another model which is often debated, The Duet is also killable relatively easily with the right tools. In this game, Korgal used Perdita who made Analyze Weakness on the Duet. Their WP is only 5, so quite easy to do. After that two shots from Perdita (Att 7 vs Df 7), ignoring Armor. Other models attacked. Repeat at beginning of Turn 3 and you have two Mannnequins at 1 Wound in place of the Duet (less scary by far). Well done Korgal!

@Kadeton and @dannydb: Concerning the "free" interact by killing in Turf War, it has been the case for one of my models. After that, I moved them in quarters already claimed by Lady J. to avoid losing other Strategy Markers when they died. I agree with you that Colette is a big distraction model and focusing on killing her is not efficient with the exception of Reckoning + Assassinate. It is not her best Strategy but I have already tried her in that case (for some poor to average results, I need to try Hoffamn and Rasputina instead).

Concerning handing out mass Distracted, for the moment, I rarely achieve this. At maximum, one beater has Distracted +2 or +3 during two turns (which is neat to negate the influence of a beater). Perhaps it is a matter of personal playstyle but I don't try to maximize Distracted and only see that as a circumstancial bonus. I highly prefer to swap places of ennemy and friendly models and to self bruy Colette and unbury her where she can score or negate points instead of keeping her in the middle of the ennemy Crew. Other players might prefer the Distracted game but it isn't absolutely necessary to win games with Colette.

 

[Jafar]

Great topic, can some one share 50 ss Colette list to try her? Thanks in advance for help.

 

[Vangerdahast]

 

Here is my list for both Plant Explosives and Turf War. Works less for Corrupted Idols but can be relatively good. Avoid it for Reckoning.

 

Colette Du Bois

Mechanical Doves x 3

Coryphee Duet

Mechanical Rider

Cassandra

Angelica

Showgirl

Soulstones: 7

 

Generally I make two  duos: Angelica + Cassandra. Coryphee Duet + Mechanical Rider.

We have two very fast duos which can do the strategy and a lot of scheming.

I take 7 Soulstones because I often draw cards at the beginnig of a turn (two or three times per game). You need Soulstones to gain the Mask necessary for Presto Chango or to self bury Colette with her sword trick. And some Soulstones for Cassandra to reduce damage.

In my opinion, self bury Colette is essential in order to redeploy her where she can score points or deny opponent's points. For example by interacting (Don't mind me) to retrieve a Strategy Marker that the opponent has just dropped for Plant Explosives (there are other tricks like this, feel free to experiment). Sword Trick in Turn 5 is generally the best way to gain the second point for Assassinate, for example.

 

[Michael Curran]

I find it very difficult to keep the crew on the tabletop long enough to accomplish their jobs.  Colette got hit pretty hard by the nerf bat.

[Vangerdahast]

2 hours ago, Michael Curran said:

I find it very difficult to keep the crew on the tabletop long enough to accomplish their jobs.  Colette got hit pretty hard by the nerf bat.

 

Colette Crew is fragile (as it was in M2E) but I don't think that Colette has been nerfed. My opponents (see original post of this topic for example) generally think that she is very hard to play against.

Losing models is a fatality for the Performers. You must lose them as late as possible in the game. Their defenses like Manipulative, Finesse for Cassandra or Distracted (which can be difficult to give to many opponents) can be countered but that should give you enough time to achieve your goals. If you have only two models left at beginning of turn 3, then you will probably lose but if you can make your models last longer, victory is achievable even with one or two models on the table at the end of the game (please see my post of 25 June above for an example). 

 

Could you detail what lists you play and who are the Masters you play against?

 

[Vangerdahast]

 

Today we had a game with Korgal and we have exchanged our Crews.

He played Colette and me Lady Justice.

 

The game was Plant Explosives in Flank Deployment. Schemes were: Dig their Graves, Assassinate, Outflank, Claim Jump and Detonate Charges.

Korgal played Colette, Cassandra, Mechanical Rider, Coryphee Duet, Angelica, Showgirl, 3 Mechanical Doves, 7 Soulstones (my usual list). He took Outflank and Detonate Charges.

I played Lady Justice, The Judge, The Jury, Pale Rider, Recruiter, Death Marshal, Death Marshal, Scales, 3 Soulstones. I took Outflank and Claim Jump (Jury).

 

The game ended in a draw 5-5. He scored 3 points for Strategy, 1 point for Detonate Charges and 1 point fort Outflank. I scored 3 points for the Strategy, 1 point for Outflank and 1 point for Claim Jump. We had certainly made mistakes as we weren't playing our favorite Crews.

 

I did'nt targeted Colette at all. Turn 1 I shot two Doves to reduce activations and to reduce possible unbury  areas for Colette. The Jury and the Recruiter were there to discourage Colette from burying. I think that the Jury would  have been enough. Perhaps I should have recruited something cheaper than the Recruiter. I was too short on Soulstones for my personal taste. On Turn 1 and 2, Lady Justice has made all of her attacks versus the Duet which came down to 3 Wounds guarantying that the Duet would never split during the game. Trying to kill other models than Colette was more effective. At the end of the game the Performers were reduced to Colette (full health), Duet with 1 Wound left and Mechanical Rider with 2 Wounds left. I "only" lost Judge, Scales and 1 Death Marshal. The Jury had 4 Wounds left (just what was necessary for the end point of Claim Jump). Lady Justice, Pale Rider and Recruiter were at full health. I didn't killed the Duet because Justice was obliged to plant explosives instead of finishing the Duet.  Putting damages on the Rider obliged him to use Fate Tokens to reduce damage and then hadn't enough Tokens for Revelation and a possible reactivation of the Duet.

Concerning Korgal, he played well the Performers. Perhaps he should have less extended the Duet Turn 1 to avoid some attacks from Lady Justice. He did'nt buried Colette at all. Perhaps a mistake there, I think he could have done that one time without taking big risks. He suffered from the quick losses as he has taken Outflank. At the end the Rider was in one corner and Colette obliged to stay in the opposite corner. The Duet was stuck in the middle of the table to guard a Strategy Maker. Last Turn he used his last Soulstone to draw two cards at the beginnig of the turn which was in retrospect a big mistake. He tried to do Presto Chango on the Pale Rider in order to be able to score the second point of Detonate Charges by palcing a second Sheme marker near him. He hadn't any high Maks in hand so he tried three times the Presto Chango but two times no Mask on the card he flipped and the last time a mid Mask but I flipped a high card. He had a 12 in Hand and if he had kept his last Soulsotne, he could have made two failed Presto Chango (in order for me to cheat)  and on the third used his Soulstone for the Mask and cheated the 12. In this case, I would have needed a 12, 13 or Red Joker to make it fail.  Perhaps I would have it but the probabilty was higher than without the Soulstone.

 

Ignoring Colette and reducing rapidly the number of her models seems to be the best way to deal with her. Models that can target buried models are a good way to discourage her from burying. The Crew is not very killy so there is less need of big beaters. Korgal generally plays 6 or 7 models Crews with beaters like the Executioner. I played with 8 models replacing a beater by two Death Marshals to be able to run after all of those speedy girls. I used more shooting attacks than Korgal.  I had enough killing power at my disposal and enough models left on my side to achieve my goals. The lack of speed of the Marshal keyword was a problem for the second point of Outflank. When my Scales died from the Rider's attacks the last Death Marshal was too far away to go back to table corner to replace the Scales for this Scheme.

 

The Strategy was one of the best Strategies for Colette but I managed to keep up with the Performers. It was a difficult game with a lot of choices to make for the two players but in the end for the first time Lady Justice didn't lose (but didn't win either). Playing versus Colette is difficult but she can be beaten even in games that favorise her. Hope that it gives ideas to the players who struggle versus her. Her Keyword is trong in some Strategies but she can be countered. It can take some time to find how to play versus her but solutions exist.

This week I also made a draw in Plant Explosives versus Seamus (another tough game).

 

[korgal]

thank you for this great summary and thank you for allowing me to see some solutions to play against the team Colette. The change v3 is a real change of gameplay and you have to adapt to it. I'm happy to see that our games are reduced to play time!

[Croaker13]

Has anyone found some strong targets for Cassandra's "Upstage" ability?

[LeperColony]

4 hours ago, Croaker13 said:

Has anyone found some strong targets for Cassandra's "Upstage" ability?

In my most recent game last Saturday, I actually used it twice.  Once for Dance Partner and another for The Power of Dance, both off the Coryphee Duet.

It actually maybe won me the game, since The Power of Dance healed a pretty low Coryphee Duet, which then absorbed a good number of actions from my opponent.

But I think Upstage is definitely circumstantial.  

[CD1248]

Upstage may have more mileage when combined with non-Performer models, whether you're hiring them in as a tech pick or hiring Cass out as an OOK to another crew.

Just off the top of my head: Vent Steam from Mei Feng, Negation Aura from the Emissary, Blizzard from Ice Golem, Blow it to Hell from Willie, False Claim from Union Miner, Leap from a few different sources, making more Ice Pillars or Pyre Markers for Raspy/Kaeris, all seem like really good things to copy in certain situations.

[Vangerdahast]

4 hours ago, Croaker13 said:

Has anyone found some strong targets for Cassandra's "Upstage" ability?

In my games, Cassandra is generally alone scheming too far away from her colleagues to use Upstage. In keyword, only Heals from the Duet and the Mannequin seem valuable.

I would agree with CD1248 that Upstage gets more value when Cassandra is hired OOK. I need to test it when I will play my other Arcanist Masters.

 

[Croaker13]

Thanks for the answers. Hmm... Something to think about. I can see her fitting very nicely into my Raspy crew, to help maximize those Ice Pillars, but that's for another thread.

In keyword I agree that there's some potential to pairing her with a Duet, but I'm not sure how often you'll want those two close together. I'll have to try it out - it seems cool.

[LeperColony]

1 hour ago, Croaker13 said:

I keyword, I agree that there's some potential to pairing her with a Duet but I'm not sure how often you'll want those two close together. I'll have to try it out - it seems cool.

I've been experimenting with keeping them together.  I give the Duet Diesel Engine, which provides Concealment to them both.  And Magical Training to Cassandra.  They form a little hit squad, but their real purpose is to attract attention so the rest of my crew can run S&S.  The upgrades make them tankier than opponents often expect.

[Vangerdahast]

Very interesting idea. Generally the Duet pairs with the Mechanical Rider in my crew, but I should try this.

Generally I use Cassandra to scheme because of her speed, often paired with Angelica who can give a push to Cassandra with Give Them an Encore.

One drawback to Diesel Engine on Duet is that you cannot split the Duet. Doing this will discard the Upgrade (see Replace rules in rulebook). But I can see the advantage of Diesel Engine on Duet.

And Magical Training on Cassandra doesn't give Arcane Reservoir (not a Minion), which is sad.

 

[LeperColony]

26 minutes ago, Vangerdahast said:

Very interesting idea. Generally the Duet pairs with the Mechanical Rider in my crew, but I should try this.

Generally I use Cassandra to scheme because of her speed, often paired with Angelica who can give a push to Cassandra with Give Them an Encore.

One drawback to Diesel Engine on Duet is that you cannot split the Duet. Doing this will discard the Upgrade (see Replace rules in rulebook). But I can see the advantage of Diesel Engine on Duet.

And Magical Training on Cassandra doesn't give Arcane Reservoir (not a Minion), which is sad.

 

Yeah, splitting will lose the upgrade.  Now I haven't played a ton of 3E, but in the few games I have done, I haven't split them yet and I've only seriously considered it once.  I think if I were to do it, it would be an emergency so the upgrade is probably the least of my issues.

With Colette crews, I've been giving my upgrades to my bigger models.  But it does mean I miss out on the Minion-only abilities, which is sad.  Especially because I'm generally one of those people who wants maximum efficiency when spending points.

[Vangerdahast]

Generally I split the Duet Turn 1 and after that it depends what ennemy models are near. With no big threat around I don't hesitate to split it and reform it. Four actions a turn is priceless to hit or to scheme. Being a big fan of splitting the Duet I think I will never take Diesel Engine. Perhaps I will test it as my opponents are actually finding solutions to counter Colette Crew and I need to surprise them a bit.

It also depends of who you are facing. I often face Lady Justice which isn't a fast Keyword so it's more safe to split. When I face McMourning with Kentauroi and/or Dead RIder I never split the Duet.

 

For the moment I play Performer Crew without Upgrades (in M2E I was playing with a total of 4 or 5 Upgrades per crew, no matter the Master I played, a big change for me). Having Arcane Reservoir would be very good but for that I should give it to a Showgirl who will be dead before or during Turn 3 generally. Don't think it is worth the 2 stones for hiring the Upgrade. I may be wrong.

 

[LeperColony]

2 hours ago, Vangerdahast said:

Generally I split the Duet Turn 1 and after that it depends what ennemy models are near. With no big threat around I don't hesitate to split it and reform it. Four actions a turn is priceless to hit or to scheme. Being a big fan of splitting the Duet I think I will never take Diesel Engine. Perhaps I will test it as my opponents are actually finding solutions to counter Colette Crew and I need to surprise them a bit.

It also depends of who you are facing. I often face Lady Justice which isn't a fast Keyword so it's more safe to split. When I face McMourning with Kentauroi and/or Dead RIder I never split the Duet.

 

For the moment I play Performer Crew without Upgrades (in M2E I was playing with a total of 4 or 5 Upgrades per crew, no matter the Master I played, a big change for me). Having Arcane Reservoir would be very good but for that I should give it to a Showgirl who will be dead before or during Turn 3 generally. Don't think it is worth the 2 stones for hiring the Upgrade. I may be wrong.

 

Yeah, I miss the two AP, but thefrom Concealment has proven really useful against stuff like Zoraida shenanigans. 

Of course, I'm also not a top flight player, so I may overpay or pick suboptimally if it helps smooth out some of my rough edges. 

[Vangerdahast]

Don't know if you are overapying. I think I need to test Diesel Engine in a next game versus Seamus (could be a good answer to reduce the impact of his Flintlock).

 

Concerning Magical Training, it is difficult for me to play with less than 7 Soulsotnes so don't think I will take it especially on non-Minion model but I see that the Shielded is useful. Maybe I should try it in Reckoning games.

 

[madaxeman]

Soooo... splitting the Duet - is that just an activation gaining thing? When I look at it I struggle to see how to use the extra activations without ending up too far apart to recombine again at the end of the turn? 

Am am I missing a sequence here ?

[retnab]

1 hour ago, madaxeman said:

Soooo... splitting the Duet - is that just an activation gaining thing? When I look at it I struggle to see how to use the extra activations without ending up too far apart to recombine again at the end of the turn? 

Am am I missing a sequence here ?

Basically the solo Coryphee are never taking their own actions other than Dance Together.  It's just a funky way of having a model have 4 AP over 2 activations each turn.

[Adran]

9 hours ago, madaxeman said:

Soooo... splitting the Duet - is that just an activation gaining thing? When I look at it I struggle to see how to use the extra activations without ending up too far apart to recombine again at the end of the turn? 

Am am I missing a sequence here ?

Rough sequence to just gain actions -

Duet activates. Does 2 actions. Uses bonus action to dance apart. 1 of the corephyee counts as that activating corephyee.

Activation ends. Opponent gets to activate.

2nd corephyee activates uses bonus action to dance together, the duet continues the activation with 2 actions.

 

About 90% of the time this is what you are likely to be wanting to do (and hope its safe enough). The other option, which I typically view as "last turn points grab" is probably as follows

Duet activates. Drops marker and moves. Duet dances apart

Opponent activates.

Corepyee activates, drops scheme marker, nimbles to walk away, drop scheme marker.  Gets you an extra scheme marker down, potentially over 14" from the first one dropped that turn. (Or if you just need the 2 markers you have 19is inchs, and both of those can be extended if you can use Dance partner insteand of walk for the duet. )