Thisendup

Strictly by the rules as written, Blood in the Water is not a trigger, it's an ability. It is not even on the same line as the melee attack, Tear Apart. While I play it as each Frenzy may only use 1 reinforcement token to generate and extra attack (for up to 6 total) as written, you could potentially generate an amazing number of attacks if you keep getting crows (for free reinforcement tokens). I do not believe this is what the writers intended with that ability.

Whom do you think Horomatangi pairs well with in a 2 commander game? Frenzy or Siren?

That's an interesting idea, put it in the middle to look like you are going after a central target then sweep off to one side or the other.

When I first started I always bought cards every turn, then felt I did not have enough tactics tokens to run the scenario. Now I rarely buy cards, since you can use a tactics token to add a flip if you need to which is about as good as drawing one. Only when I am sure I have everything covered (scenario, endless numbers, stratagems) do I consider buying cards.

I was apparently mistaken about the extra morale action. As I understood it an action could not be taken twice without a special rule or trigger. Was wrong. Glad you tried them and liked them Loki. They play very differently from the Stormsiren, but that's not a bad thing. I love them vs Burning Man, as they usually end up in melee turn 1, right where I want them to be.

There is some debate as it's not a trigger that generates the extra attack, just spending a reinforcement token. I personally play it as only being able to generate one additional attack, so 6 maximum. Seems a bit OP otherwise. As for stormy, don't forget that her lure can also be used to pull opponents away from objectives (towards her or a tide pool). Situational, but can be useful.

On that note, the free morale action still counts as an action. So if Frenzy A does nipping at their heels for free as a commander, Frenzy B and C can also, but A cannot do it a second time and must do a different action during their turn.

Just for different tactics, try taking Unnatural reflexes instead of shark tooth necklaces. Getting a card every turn is nice and having your opponent cheat first can be almost as good as flipping two cards. For crazy melee power, take both, although that means no relic, if you are facing burning man, still a fun thing to try on occasion and be super scary in melee combat.

Taking the same upgrades all the time makes one predictable. Trying something new, even if it's just a specific effect or some strange thing just for laughs, can throw your opponent off.

I was pointing out a specific instance where you might want to try something other than the horn. Vs Abysinia to mess with their card drawing. She does not become any more fragile than other commanders with two upgrades. Plus Abysinia has a tough time getting to your back field and Stormsiren works well far away from opponents, at least for me. If she's in a tide pool (and she should be pretty much all the time) then she's got cover vs their shooting as well.

I thought a non-titan fireteam could draw line of sight to a titan over another non-titan fireteam.

I thought it would be useful to have a thread for commander tips, tactics, stratagems, and examples of play. I do not yet have Horomatangi so anything I write will be conjecture and theorycraft. C'mon Wyrd, Horo was supposed to be released already, I want him!

Much like the Frenzy, you need to get Stormy to glory as quickly as possible. Turning all those pools into hazards is very worth it. Take Heavy Rains stratagem with her and use it to put more pool in your opponents way -or- put them near objectives. With the Tidal Scepter she can bamf from pool to pool and grab nearby objectives then bamf away next turn if threatened. Save this for later in the turn when your opponent cannot mob her. Take the Conch horn most of the time. I say most because it depends on who you play. I like unnatural growth vs Abbysinia as it messes with their card drawing. Since you cannot spawn from pools then I would say take 2 units of Striped Skulkers and when they die use "These things are everywhere" to similar effect. If you do not take the conch horn play stormy very defensively, she becomes much more fragile.

An easy tip is get them to glory on the first activation of turn 1. You want those extra tactics tokens! Plus adding "prove your worth" and the other abilities is very useful. I cannot recommend enough putting the Relic of Ancient Malifaux on the Frenzy. Three potential use's of the item is nothing short of amazing. Combined with Shark Tooth necklaces you are almost certain to get two off, often three or four. Put a token on the Frenzy themselves, then stock up your other units. Works great on Karkinoi and Alpha Crawler who get better with more tokens. Don't forget it can let a unit reinforce more than once in a turn. Frustrate your opponent by bringing back everything they just killed in one turn. Keep them near a unit of Armored Whelks to make sure your opponent has a tough time getting those tokens off of them. Lastly, don't be afraid in the early game to feed one of the Frenzy to another squad to get them to glory if you have a reinforcement token on them.

Thought it might be useful to have a tactics place for useful tips, stratagems, and examples of play with our commanders

Thought it might be useful to have a thread for useful tactics, tips, stratagems, and examples of play with our various commanders.

Low hazardous terrain affects titans just the same as everyone else except they can draw line of sight through it without penalty. They still take the strength 3 hit, just the same as if the ran through difficult terrain (which would be a strength 2 hit)

I have played several more 1 commander games with the Frenzy and have to say I will probably rarely if ever take the stormsiren in a one player game. The board control may be nice, but the ripping everything your opponent has to shreds while regenerating your entire army is better. Frenzy with Shark tooth necklaces and Relic of ancient malifaux is almost too much. It will take 7 damaging hits in one turn to take them out. They generate their own reinforcement tokens through attacking, generate more with the relic, and flip two cards on all actions. They are also a commander you can feed to your own units to get them to glory, reinforce, get the free melee action from "Prove your worth." Not to mention up to 6 melee actions in one activation, that can all potentially generate reinforcement tokens. Even with no upgrades they take 3 damaging hits to drop and can reinforce themselves. In the last 4 games I have played with them they have eaten an enemy commander every game, devoured titans, consumed whole uninjured units in a single squad activation, and more. Stormsiren is good, but for sheer butt kicking it's frenzy all the way. With the right items she can take a lot of damage, but at the cost of precious, precious tactics tokens. I do like using her to spread tide pools near objectives, teleport there with tidal scepter, then take the objective.

If I am playing abbysinia I like lightning strike and take it early. Good for picking on rail gunners and stragglers. Useful against Kings Empire bicyclist machine gun guy whose name I forget. Also spawning moon to bring in a unit early is very useful. A spawned unit of Yarazi was what tipped a recent game to victory for me.

For actual tactics, anyone who can strip tokens like Margaret with Rapier wit can be nasty to eels. Whelks just need to be beat on hard. It takes a damage flip of 15 to kill two, which can be difficult, but far from impossible. I tend to use their independent rule to maximize how many of my horde get Pinned immunity, but that means only three whelks need to be killed to open up a flank. If you are going to go after them hit them with everything until they go down. No half measures or you're just wasting time.

As a gibbering hordes player I would like to address this. First I recommend inviting the eels and whelks over for root beer and Oreos. Make no threatening moves, even if they eat your friends, that's just a common greeting among the hordes, it means they like you! Eels are noted huggers, so don't be put off if they get into your personal space. Whelks are known for their independence and intellect. Try offering a game of Parcheesi to pique their interest. I hope you find this helpful and see you on the battlefield...I mean public hugging grounds.

Going to give some examples from Gibbering hordes because I play them the most I am using the Frenzy, they have the Relic of Ancient Malifaux. When activated they can take a free morale action (nipping at their heels) and each frenzy can use the relic one time if they should wish. The relic does not give them an extra action, just another action they can take. Using the Alpha Crawler with Massive Arms, the Alpha crawler may, if an enemy is in melee range, use the Gruesome Maw to bite and enemy AND may use the massive arms to punch an enemy giving the crawler effectively an additional action during it's turn. The action has versatile and may only be done once per turn. Is my understanding correct?

Claiming objectives with Endless numbered eggs: An egg clutch can be placed anywhere on the table including your opponents deployment zone. There is no reason that you cannot put them right next to an objective and claim it on their activation. Sure they die easy, but whatever is killing the egg is leaving the rest of your army alone. If you have enough eggs and Tactics tokens this can be a real pain to your opponent. If you have initiative and a card to discard, two eggs on a chain activation can claim or destroy two objectives. I would not do this all the time, but it is a good tactic to remember and at a critical point can score a lot of victory points.

The Frenzy brings up a point and I want to make sure I'm am doing this correctly. Each model can take 1 melee action. If they have enough reinforcement tokens and are in glory, they can use Blood in the Water to do another melee action. So 3 melees (1 per frenzy) and 3 extra with tokens for a total of 6 potential melee actions plus one free moral action. Possibly a 7th if you reinforce them during that same turn either during upkeep or Relic of Ancient Malifaux.

Plaid