INXVI

Wasn't expecting to be a huge fan of Shenlong when I jumped ship from Neverborn at the edition change. Few games later and I loved the whole 1st turn strategy, monks punch monks for chi, stacking poison, transferring chi turning Shenlong into a monster and pushing everyone around with the Students. Reminded me a lot of Collodi and how placement, activation order and management are important.

Once Covid hit I didn't get the chance to play for 15 months, I was going to try Lynch or Asami for my first game back but took one look at Shen's card and was like "damn, this dude rocks".

Was out of the loop so had no clue about the all stars list, sounds nasty though for sure. Tended to play thematically for fun.

I'm mainly losing because of stupid mistakes or positioning, a few was probably phrased wrong, it's only 3 loses, 1 win. One game I pushed Shen and he ended up being within an inch of my Samurai. He then proceeded to take 7 damage, after stones, from Sonnia's blasts, targeting the Samurai because of his df 4. Never making that mistake again.

And yeah I've taken a LRM every game, his passive heal is pretty good and means you can smack Shen with someone and he'll heal a bit when he activates. He usually gets killed pretty quickly though. 

I think that's the problem with the way I've been building my lists, too many support models, dying too quickly that I'm put on the back foot and have to play Shenlong more passively instead of beating face, like focussing on healing my claim jump target.

I'll give HRMs a chance, but on paper they don't seem that amazing, I guess the irreducible damage would hurt against heavy armour/shielded etc crews.

Hi, so I've been soloing Shenlong since M3E dropped and he's definitely my kind of master. I've enjoyed all the games I've played even if I've lost a good few of them. The list I've been running usually includes:

Shenlong

Students

Low River Monk

Wandering River Monk

Samurai

Then a combination of Charm Warders (against Demise/Summoners), Fermented for tankiness and Idols (push and heal) Sensei Yu (chi stacking, fast and tankiness) Lone Swordsman for damage, Tanuki for focus and condition removal.

So I'm wondering, am I missing any key models that have been useful in your games? Is there a fine balance between Monk models and Versatile models, or even out of keyword? How do you rate the other Monk models such as Lotus Eaters, HRM or Archers? What kind of lists have you been running and interesting techs you've tested?

I know the list is influenced by schemes/strats but this is more to get an understanding of what I may be missing from my arsenal and to discuss what models work. Any advice is appreciated.

I don't know how much help I'll be but here's some thoughts after skimming through the cards.

If you're hit with Blackmail, I'd recommend just giving away the pass tokens, losing cards and letting your opponent draw is dangerous, you are already limited on resources as it is.

Kabuki Warriors are a pain if you get too close but Rusty Alyce has a nice min 3 shot and potential rapid fire if it's worth the discard, 2-3 successful shots will drop one.

A&D is fast and can ignore any conditions Youko or Misaki are giving out, sadly it's at the cost of a card again but it's useful to have just in case. His MV 7 means he's less likely to fail Misaki's lightning strike too.

The Scavenger is useful for potential card draw and he can hand out focussed. This helps you get around Serene Countenance and put some pressure on Youko.

Levi can put quite a bit of damage out, it does mean doing damage to yourself, but hitting Bill with min 4, irreducible damage on a positive (at the cost of 4 damage to yourself) will help take him down more easily, especially since he cannot heal himself with Stoic Nod. On the face of it, it's risky as you're leaving yourself damaged in exchange for extra damage, but if you're lacking in resources, being put on positives will help increase your chances of winning the duel.

I hope this helped, I can't really give any advice on models to substitute in since my brother has been focussing on Guild instead of Outcasts recently so I have no experience playing against M3E Outcasts.

I can't help but feel like the Brothers would benefit from 'I've got your back' there heal isn't as good as the Tanuki's, so we could play into their other assets.

Pulling a model out of combat then healing it a little seems fitting, or even just for the protection of getting a model out of danger. This also means that the range of their heal can stay the same, without having to come up with another name for the action completely.

(Additional thought, tomes trigger to 'I've got your back' give himself or the model shielded +1)

They could also gain Bodyguard, to enhance the purpose of protection and supporting other models.

Alternatively, Protection Money, would play into the scheme marker theme.

These are just suggestions, it is a pretty good model so I'm hoping if any of these ideas get implemented, it then won't become too good of a versatile model.

Thanks for clarifying, sorry if I caused any confusion, that's what I get for rushing a post whilst on the move 😂

@Fetid Strumpet

So with Wyrd focusing another update on fixing crews and models that need work, which models do you think we, as a faction of playtesters, should playtest and provide feedback for?

My interpretation would be that the +2 comes after too, as stated in Step D Determine Final Duel Total.

'Players then add their stat, the value and suit of the card in the Conflict, and any additional suits or modifiers together to determine their final duel total.' 

Due to cheating fate being Step C, the cheated card would come before determining the final duel total, which includes adding modifiers, being the +2, to the value of the cheated card.

I didn't get chance to play Collodi during the open beta, since I devoted myself to the Thunders, but at first glance he's still the master I find most appealing in this faction.

Maybe it's his aesthetic or the fact I played him the most back in M2E but I feel I'll be playing him more than any Neverborn master.

Dangling on the Strings is similar to M2E but more balanced, the upgrades add more flavour (I'm a big fan of lures) he isn't a one man army like before, dismantling my opponents crew and rendering up to 2 models a turn, useless, but this is healthy for the game. He can still be threatening, push models, manipulate the opponents crew etc.

I'm looking forward to trying him with Coryphee and Stitched, and I still need to try the Collodi +7 effigies list I regret never running 😂

I'm also tempted to give him Inhumane Reflexes for some defensive nostalgia.

6 hours ago, Passenty said:

Terracota warrior was mainly putting scrap from Luna abilities.

Just thought I'd let you know that Terracotta Warriors cannot copy Luna's action as she costs less, and a Terracotta Warrior can only copy the tactical actions of models that have a higher cost.

It's a shame it's cheaper models, as without this restriction the TW's could copy Luna's 'frantic digging' which would help generate scrap markers for the crew.

3 hours ago, Gerry Hartmann said:

Hello all! I'm brand new to Malifaux. Some friends have introduced me to the game, and I'm excited to get in my first real game. After I was led through a teaching game, I excitedly bought a Malifaux lot from eBay. Full disclosure, I had no idea what I was buying. Good news is I got a great deal on a Dreamer Neverborn lineup. Bad news is that the cards I have are all first edition and not usable. I'm not new to miniature games, as I have been playing Guild Ball for about two years. Guild Ball has all the cards available online for free, but they encourage using the app. I love the app after getting used to it. I paid for the Malifaux app, I'm sure I'll get used to it and love it too. As a learning aid, I'd like to have printed cards I can refer to and write notes on. I was told in the Facebook group that the cards are available for free in the forums, but I don't know where to look. Help?

Hey, welcome to Malifaux, it's a great game that I started almost 2 years ago and quickly came to love, playing 2-3 games a week.

The edition is currently going through a change, for the better and worse, but I think as a new player you're in a good spot as you can learn fresh whilst the new edition progresses.

You'll notice a few things have changed, Neverborn gained 3 new masters (but lost Collodi & Lilith in the process, however they still have rules and can be played in tournaments with permission from the TO).

Here is a link to the beta files, you don't necessarily have to learn M3E, you could stick to playing M2E for now, but is recommend starting straight from the beta, the game is more streamlined in its ways so should be more friendly for beginners.

Sadly, I've moved on from Neverborn now, I loved them in M2E but times have changed, so I'd definitely recommend starting from M3E and seeing a models new playstyle.

Hope this helps, and I hope you enjoy playing the faction 😄

Link to beta files: 

@santaclaws01 Yes I got lucky on this occasion, but removing a card from his hand with Unseen Manipulator, means you have a greater chance of removing a good card, as there is 1 less to cushion the blow.

@thewrathchilde when I read the action and saw it was limited to tactical actions I wondered where it would be useful.

After looking through there are a few good actions he can copy, such as Bill & Sun Quangs healing. Ohaguro's ability to give out slow, Archer's Target Practice to remove markers and Ototo's placing a shadow marker.

I'm not sure if he can copy master (as a leader) actions, as the rulebook states that "Leaders are not hired and are therefore free." However, I'm guessing the cost on their card is still relevant. Giving out focused to Oni would be good and making a model charge with Misaki's action would be useful.

However, then we hit the problems, in order to do most of these actions, a pretty high card will be required, such as an 8 or 10, just to do an action that probably isn't worth the effort, positioning and resources.

Secondly, TW's are only Wk 4, without support they won't be able to maintain the 5' distance needed to copy an action, and even then, they still need range for said copied action to be useful.

They also suffer from the fact that other cheap minions will be much more useful in most cases, such as a 4 stone Geisha for positioning or disruption, or for an extra stone, a Tanuki, who brings healing and condition removal.

The model is in a tough place, I don't know how useful any recommendations would be, but maybe bumping up his price to 6ss, giving him slightly better mobility (maybe creep along) and a further range on Just Like You would be useful.

How powerful do you feel Youko's draw power is?

I had another game today, and she can cycle cards pretty well, Backroom Dealings seems to be worth a high card or a stone, especially if you are potentially drawing 2 back in return, whilst also crippling your opponents hand in the first couple of turns.

On the first turn, I forced an 11 & 12 out of my opponent's hand, and he couldn't really stop it since the stat is 7, which will often be 2 or 3 higher, and cheating almost feels discouraged, especially if they will potentially lose cards on top of the ones already cheated, prior.

Blackmail is more influenced by your opponent's choices, but it could still lead to 2-3 cards being cycled per activation, whilst also damaging the hand of your opponent.

I've only played her 2 times, so both me and my opponent will have been inexperienced, so does this ability become less prominent and easier to manage by your opponent as you become more familiar with the crew, or is it still noticeably powerful?

Do you think that maybe it should be limited to Once Per Action, or Once Per Activation of currently active model, or is this too restrictive?

@Jinn It was his first time playing against the crew so it was more or less a reaction to the action, especially since he was trying to figure out how his own crew worked too.

I personally wouldn't discard any cards but there will be situations where it is relevant.

For example, say your opponent has Take Prisoner. If I stacked pass tokens, I could stall activations and reduce the amount of models my opponent can utilise to score this scheme.

@DonovanW Thanks for that, I guess that's what I get for skim reading 😂 I only read the timing structure as the I didn't want to hold the game up too long.

Hey, so this is my 5th game of the open beta, I played Youko and @Tsyuukii played Hoffman.

Strategy: Turf War

Deployment: Corner

Scheme Pool:
Harness The Ley Lines (3)
Hold Up Their Forces (6)
Take Prisoner (7)
Power Ritual (8)
Outflank (9)

@INXVI 5ss
Youko Hamasaki 2ss (Trained Ninja)
Chiyo Hamasaki
Bill Algren 9ss
Kabuki Warrior 8ss
Kunoichi 6ss
Bunraku 6ss
Bunraku 6ss
Geisha 4ss
Terracotta Warrior 4ss (I took him to try him out, with no prior knowledge about his rules.)

@Tsyuukii 6ss
Hoffman
Mechanical Attendant
Ryle 9ss
Peacekeeper 10ss
Guardian 9ss
Hunter 8ss
Watcher 4ss
Watcher 4ss

Turn 1:
Hoffman wins iniative, Youko's crew goes first. Geisha walks and lures Bill up the board, Hoffman activates to give out mass power token, overcharge Ryle, Peacekeeper,  then walks in front of the Guardian. Kabuki warrior, walks and lures Youko to fix my bad positioning. Mechanical Attendant walks and interacts with the strategy marker. Bunraku, pushes, walks and lures the Kunoichi, Hunter double walks, Terracotta warrior walks and interacts with the strategy marker. Watcher double walks, Chiyo drops a scheme marker in my deployment zone then walks, Watcher transfers power to Ryle, then double walks. Bunraku, pushes, lures Chiyo and then walks. Guardian throws Hoffman then single walks. Kunoichi activates, picks up the 11 and drops a 4, then double walks. Peacekeeper triple walks. Youko, walks, Backroom Dealing on Peacekeeper, crows trigger to discard an 11 and 12, Riddles in the dark giving the Peacekeeper D+1, then walks again. Ryle activates, creep along, walks, then gatling guns the Kunoichi getting rid of a token for a mask, 1 damage, shoots Bunraku with free shot, red jokers with trigger again, 3 damage, shoots Kunoichi, 1 damage, 3rd Ap shooting the Kunoichi, 3 damage. Bill double walks. Hunter pushes at the end of the turn.

Turn 2:
Youko wins initiative. Youko activates to damage my opponents hand, she walks to within 6' of the Hunter, Backroom dealings, stoning for a crow, discarding 2 4's as his hand was pretty weak, I then draw 2 cards, Youko uses Blackmail on the Hunter, he discards 1, obeys to harpoon the Guardian, disposition it a bit, uses the action again on The Guardian and gains 2 pass tokens. The Hoff activates, power nexus gives tokens to Ryle, 1 watcher, The Peacekeeper and himself, overcharges Ryle with a positive, walks, fails to overcharge the Hunter, Bill walks and charges Ryle, 2 damage, puts up Challenge aura. Watcher power transfers Ryle, then double walks. Kunoichi activates, 1 damage with trigger to push, pushes into base contact with the Strategy marker and interacts. Ryle activates, metal claws Bill, token for a Ram, 3 damage, again with the Ram, 2 damage, both discard tokens, red joker for 6 damage after armor, Bill dies (I probably should have stoned prior, but I didn't expect him to die). The Strategy marker turns neutral. Geisha activates and  lures Hoffman, fails to do it a second time. Hoffman uses the pass token. Kabuki Warrior charges Hoffman, discards a pass token for a positive, 0 damage after all forms of reduction, again, 0 damage after reduction (both stones were severe) but he does gain Distracted +1. Mechanical Attendant walks, bonus action to push The Guardian 2', uses eternal magnet to push The Guardian and Peacekeeper 3'. Bunraku pushes, then double walks towards the top left corner. Watcher activates, walk charge the Bunraku, 0 damage. Bunraku pushes, walks and charges the Watcher, but fails to do any damage. The Guardian activates, Power Transfers onto the Peacekeeper, and walks, it then charges the  Kabuki Warrior, discards for a mask, 3 damage and pushed 4'. Terracotta Warrior double walks. Peacekeeper charges the Terracotta Warrior, ditches a token to cancel D+1, fails first attack, second one, spends a token for a ram, I cheat to win. Chiyo walks, Biting Insult's the Peacekeeper and fails. The Hunter charges Youko, spends a token to be put on a straight, I cheat to win, Pounce on chest, rams trigger to do an additional place. End of turn, The Hunter pushes into base contact with a neutral Strategy Marker.

Youko Scores 1 for Turf War.
Hoffman Scores 1 for Turf War & 1 for Hold Up Their Forces.

Turn 3:
Youko wins initiative. Youko activates, Backroom dealings on the hunter, crows trigger, discards an 11, I draw a 4. Blackmail, I win, he discards 1, I draw 1 card and gain a pass token, she then charges The Hunter to stop it interacting with the marker, gives it distracted 1 and does 2 damage after armor. Hoffman activates, giving out power tokens to The Peacekeeper, himself and The Guardian, he overcharges the Guardian, overcharges the Peacekeeper, fails then passes, Kabuki warrior fails 1 duel, causing 1 damage and giving him inj +1. Chiyo activates, misinformation on The Peacekeeper who was on a negative, he flips a 10 so I decided to leave it as I knew his hand wasn't too good, Biting Insult on The Peacekeeper, he reds so Chiyo does nothing, she tries again, succeeds on the 2nd attempt. Mechanical Attendant activates, walks and uses Eternal Magnet, declares towards, pushing Hoffman, The Guardian and The Peacekeeper out of combat. The Kabuki Warrior activates, and charges Ryle, 2 damage, again, 2 damage. The Peacekeeper activates, interacts with the centre marker, walks and charges Youko, spends a token for a Ram, fails. Geisha walks and lures the Hunter, away from the Strategy marker. The Guardian activates, walks and tosses the Kabuki Warrior, fails one but succeeds on the other, pushes him closer to the centre, no longer engaging Ryle. Kunoichi activates and charges the Watcher, doing 2 damage and moving 3', he then attacks again, killing it. Ryle activates, eats the scrap marker for a power token, walks and interacts with a Strategy marker. Bunraku pushes, walks and interacts to drop a scheme marker on the bottom right corner of the table. Watcher attacks the Bunraku, doing 1 damage in total. Other Bunraku pushes, walks and drops a scheme marker in the top left corner of the table. The Hunter activates, walks and attacks Youko on a double neg, he fails, then uses Pounce on chest and wins with a lowest card of an 11, with the heave trigger, to disposition her, whilst also placing her into base contact with the Peacekeeper. The Terracotta Warrior double walks. End of the turn, the Hunter pushes into base contact with the Strategy marker.

Youko Scores 1 for Outflank (Bunraku & Bunraku) & 1 for Power Ritual.
Hoffman Scores 1 for Turf War & 1 for Take Prisoner on the Kabuki Warrior

Turn 4:
Hoffman gets initiative, Hunter activates, interacts with the Strategy Marker, then charges the Terracotta Warrior, kills it, and gains fast as it had not yet activated, pounce on chest on Youko,
fails, walks 6 towards the Bunraku. Kabuki Warrior activates, lures Ryle with the rip and tear trigger, 1 damage after armor and stones, 2nd ap attack, manages to kill Ryle, changing the bottom
right marker to neutral. The Peacekeeper activates, attacks Youko and ditches a token to be put on a straight flip, 3 damage, again, fails, flurry, spool up trigger, o damage after stoning. Chiyo activates, walks and uses misinformation on Hoffman, who is on a negative, due to the Kabuki Warrior, he drops the black and I get to draw as he is within 6' of Youko, she then uses Biting Insult on Hoffman but fails. Hoffman activates, overcharges the Guardian, overcharges the Mechanical Attendant on the 2nd attempt. Bunraku activates, lures the Watcher then pushes to gain focused and attacks
it, getting the trigger for Crit Strike and dropping the red joker on damage, so the top left marker would become neutral as it died. Mechanical Attendant walks, and pushes The Guardian away, power
transfer onto the Guardian, then with the fast ap, he pushes The Guardian again. Kunoichi drops a 3 to pick up the red, walk, charges the Guardian, does 1 damage, then places the Kabuki Warrior into
base contact with himself, giving him focused with the trigger. The Guardian activates and throws the Kunoichi, fails, does it again, throwing him into the Bunraku, killing the Kunoichi, last ap to
concentrate. Geisha walks and lures Youko. Youko walks and interacts with a Strategy marker, then gives a Hunter distracted +2. Bunraku walks and drops a scheme marker.

Youko Scores 1 for Turf War.

Turn 5:
Youko wins initiative, she activates and and uses Backroom Dealings on the Peacekeeper, uses Blackmail, and he discards 2, she uses Riddles in the dark on the Peacekeeper to give it Distracted +2,
She then blackmails the Hunter, with the trigger to obey, I gain 2 pass tokens and make The Hunter walk further away from the Bunraku. Chiyo activates, targeting the Peacekeeper, we both draw 2 overall. she then double walks behind cover. Hoffman activates, walk, overcharge the Guardian, overcharges Mechanical Attendant. Geisha walks and lures the Mechanical Attendant. The Peacekeeper activates, and  does 8 damage to the Geisha, despite being on a negative, then chain harpoons Youko, fails. Youko pass tokens, The Hunter walks and interacts with the Strategy marker. Bunraku pushes and lures The Kabuki Warrior twice, failing once. The Mechanical Attendant triple walks to engage the Kabuki Warrior, then transfers power to The Guardian. Youko pass token. The Guardian throws the Mechanical Attendant at the Bunraku to engage it, both pass the test, The Guardian then walks. The Kabuki Warrior does a disengaging action, he pushes 0' on the first, but due to my opponents flip of a weak on a  straight flip, for the second flip, The Kabuki Warrior managed to push away, denying Take prisoner. The Bunraku drops a scheme marker. End of the turn, The Hunter pushes to engage Youko.

Youko Scores 1 for Outflank (Bunraku & Bunraku) & 1 for Power Ritual.
Hoffman Scores 1 for Turf War & 1 for Hold Up Their Forces.

6 - 6 Draw

The game was a lot of fun, and @Tsyuukii was pleasantly surprised by Hoffman, especially since he hadn't played him since the early days of the closed beta.

@INXVI's thoughts:

Youko - She is a really interesting master and I love playing her, the front of her card is really unique, and disrupting my opponents hand is fun, for me at least. I didn't use Information Network at all, I still think it would work well as a trigger. Backroom Dealings is pretty strong around turn 2/3, especially if your opponent doesn't reveal their schemes early on, I discarded 2 severe's from my opponents hand turn 1, and this could be seen as potentially too strong, especially when combined with the drawing she can do herself. Most turns I was drawing between 2-3 cards which is a pretty strong way to cycle resources. Maybe it should be limited to once per action, she can draw a card, or once per activation at a push, this is only my 2nd game with her so this will need more focus. I would love for Youko to gain 'Rake the Eyes' like Chiyo has, I know she usually won't be in combat, but excavating and discarding cards is very flavourful, but maybe its unnecessary. 

Bill - Once again, I didn't really get to try him, challenge kept some of my smaller minions alive for a turn, but an unforeseen Red Joker took him off the board quickly. He tends to get focused on quite a bit, but that's because he's useful and a disruption to my opponents crew. It may also be because I am proxying Mr Graves as Bill, who is a fan favourite of the Red Joker in my games throughout M2E.

Kabuki Warrior - I used him more aggressively than last game, he did quite a bit of damage and his lure is always useful. The 2' aura of negatives to WP wasn't overly strong, but this might be influenced by the fact Chiyo was the only real threat stood nearby when it mattered. I really like them as models.

Bunraku - A favourite of mine, they always seem to do well. The 3' push is great, and as a previous Collodi player, I value whatever pushes I can get, their lure is very useful and potential crit strike on their melee led to me killing a Watcher when it mattered.

Kunoichi - I also really like these too, picking up cards from the discard pile is useful, and helping get models out of combat helps to keep them alive, reposition is useful, especially since Tools for the job makes it easier to access.

Chiyo - Forcing my opponent to discard cards can be pretty powerful, it didn't happen much, since I didn't want to over-invest and give my opponent an easy kill, she gave out distracted a bit, which is definitely useful when a Peacekeeper is staring right at Youko.

Terracotta Warrior - I just threw him into the crew, he was too slow to keep up with Bill and act as a medi-bot, I didn't want to invest my lures into helping him keep up, if he would struggle to maintain range, so I instead used him to interact with the Turf War marker. I saved a high mask so he could turn into a Kunoichi, but he died before the Kunoichi did, so he ended up being pretty useless. I can see that he may have a place, but non-bonus tactical actions were very absent in my crew, so I definitely used him wrong. However, at first glance I don't know where he would be useful, I will have to look at other crews to determine this.

@Tsyuukii

Hoffman - He is pretty good, I utilised his action to give out fast a lot, his Wk 4 means he is pretty slow, and he lost magnetise but he can be thrown and pushed by other models, so you just have to find a way around this. I was gutted that he lost power loop and I still miss it, but the new Hoffman can still support his crew.

Mechanical Attendant - This model is really good, he can push a lot of models at once and the fact he is significant is even better, he can be used to help score after all the pushes and assistance is done.

Ryle - MVP of the game, he did a lot of damage and applied some early game pressure, power tokens allow him to access the mask trigger with more consistency, meaning he has to be dealt with, as a fast Ryle can pump out a lot of shots. Creep along helps him get up the board quicker and get into the action when needed.

Peacekeeper - It was a bit underwhelming, but this is due to the fact I was usually on negatives from Distracted or hitting Youko, he can still do a lot of damage, I just don't think I used him to his full potential, alongside the fact he was targeted quite a bit.

The Guardian - Tengen Toppen Gurren Guardian, he was throwing models and adjusting positioning, causing damage like a badass mecha, he is much better than last edition.

Watchers -  Better than they were last addition, they are quick and great scheme runners.

The Hunter - Much better, a bigger impact in the game, the push at the end of the turn is great for extra mobility or positioning for next turn, the fact he is Stat 6 is combat is very useful and Pounce on chest can lead to some good disruption.

I thought I'd post in here, rather than starting a whole new thread.

So I played Youko today, her crew is a lot of fun, but it's been brought up before about Youko's Information Network action.

I'll probably start another thread for the keyword as a whole another time, so playtesters can discuss potential changes, but here are my brief thoughts on the issue.

So, my thoughts are, either give Youko's 'Riddles In The Dark action the surge trigger, or a trigger to make the enemy discard a card. This synergises in 2 ways.

Surge: Drawing a card will change the ratio between players, this is useful as, say both players are 1 card apart, the trigger would make the action more effective on it's second use.

Opponent discards trigger: This synergises even more, as if the opponent discards a card, the controlling player will draw (if within 6') therefore making the difference more manageable.

Alternatively, the discard trigger could have another factor, being 'if the opposing player has more cards in their cheat hand that you, they must discard a card' This way, the trigger is more situational and cannot be abused if the opponent has less cards, but it also offers a way to get your opponent to discard cards, if they refuse to during Youko's blackmail action.

Feel free to pitch your own ideas or question mine if you disagree.

Hey, so had another game game of M3E (my fourth) against @SirPerryBerry. I decided I was going to play Youko, no matter the scheme pool, mainly to get a feel for her thematic crew's rule set.

Strategy: Plant Explosives.

Deployment: Standard

Schemes:

Detonate Charges (1)

Harness The Ley Lines (3)

Assassinate  (10)

Claim Jump (12)

Vendetta (13)

@INXVI Crew - 7ss

Youko Hamasaki

Chiyo Hamasaki

Bill Algren (9)

Kabuki Warrior (8)

Kunoichi (6)

Kunoichi (6)

Bunraku (6)

Geisha (4)

Geisha (4)

Strategy: Plant Explosives 2

Schemes: Harness The Ley Lines 1, Vendetta (Bill VS Ototo) 0

@SirPerryBerry Crew - 3ss

Misaki Katanaka

Shang

Ototo (10)

Minako Rei (8)

Yamaziko (7)

Torakage (6)

Torakage (6)

Tanuki (5)

Tanuki (5)

Strategy: Plant Explosives 2

Schemes: Harness The Ley Lines 2, Assassinate 1

Each models purpose on the board will be only be brief or vague, as we didn't note each action, therefore a lot will be from memory.

Turn 1:

Youko wins initiative, Misaki buries, Torakage, Tanuki, Shang advance up the board, Geisha's walk and lure the Bunraku and the Kabuki Warrior, who proceeded to lure Bill. Ototo placed a shadow marker with the trigger to place, then walked (he was now quite far away from Bill) Minako summoned a Katashiro, which tied up some models. Youko gave a Torakage distracted and burned some cards from my opponent's hand. Misaki unburied and lightning striked a group of my models, killing Chiyo and causing bits of damage to a Kunoichi, Bill and Youko.

Turn 2:

Youko wins initiative, Misaki buries again. Youko activated first, revealed my opponents cheat hand and caused a little damage, I also managed to gain some pass tokens. Shang activated and caused some more damage, via shockwaves, Yamaziko attacked a Kunoichi, getting a blast which killed a nearby Geisha, the Kunoichi was later killed by Minako. Both Torakage walked onto my board half. A Kabuki warrior walked and charged a Torakage, prior to it walking away, doing 3 damage, who was then given Distracted by the Tenuki in return. The Bunraku pushed and walked, then dropped a strategy marker.  Misaki unburied and attacked Bill, leaving him on 4 wound. Bill then had to activate, as I had already spent my pass tokens, trying to keep him alive, he attacked Misaki, but failed to damage her. Ototo placed a shadow marker, but didn't get the trigger, so he walked closer to Bill instead. 

Youko scored - Plant Explosives 1.

Misaki didn't score.

Turn 3:

Misaki wins iniative, Ototo proceeds to murder Bill, Youko activates and damages my opponents hand and adds to my stack of pass tokens, the Bunraku places a scheme marker and charges the Tanuki (big mistake) it proceeds to get the trigger, and places next to my scheme marker. The Tanuki engaged Youko, The Geisha dropped a scheme marker. The Kunoichi placed Youko into base contact, then walked and dropped a strategy marker. The Tanuki removed my other scheme marker. The Kabuki Warrior, placed the scheme marker further to the left, so it could walk and interact, outside of 4'. Yamaziko interacted to drop a marker, Minako walked and dropped a bomb, as did a Torakage, whilst the other dropped a scheme marker. Misaki started to hunt down Youko and caused 2 damage.

Youko scored - Plant Explosives 1.

Misaki scored - Plant Explosives 1, Harness The Ley Lines 1, Assassinate 1.

Turn 4:

Misaki wins initiative, and proceeds to damage Youko, causing 5 damage before stoning, Youko managed to survive, thanks to my opponents low flips and bad cheat hand. The Bunraku charged the Tenuki, leaving it on 1 wound, whilst the Kabuki Warrior used the same tactic as last turn. The Youko attempted to damage my opponents hand further, she killed the Tanuki, to prevent it removing my scheme marker, later on in the turn. The Kunoichi placed Youko, who was still engaged by Misaki, into base contact, he then walked and attacked Shang, killing him. Yamaziko dropped 2 scheme markers, utilising nimble to do so, a Torakage walked and dropped the 3rd on the centreline. Minako walked and dropped another bomb, which she had gotten from killing the Geisha earlier.

Youko scored - Harness The Ley Lines 1.

Misaki scored - Plant Explosives 1, Harness The Ley Lines 1.

(This is due to the game ending here, as the store was closing, but if another turn was to happen, Assassinate and Plant Explosives would have most likely been scored by my opponent, with Harness The Ley Lines being possible at a push, but it would have definitely been difficult.)

5 - 3 to Misaki.

@INXVI's thoughts:

Qi & Gong are definitely an interesting crew, I love the easy access to lures, especially on the Kabuki Warrior, as it makes it a lot more versatile and useful. Geisha's died quickly, but that's to be expected of a 4 stone minion. Bunraku are great, I got some when I bought Collodi around a year ago, and used them over other generic minions, the 3' push and focused is great, the lure is more useful than the snatch they used to have, and the fact their resistance trigger is baked in is also good. Chiyo died too quickly to determine how useful she is, but on her card she definitely has a lot going on, Biting Insuit and Misinformation are actions your opponent has to be wary of. Bill is also a good damage dealer and support piece, a bit like Mr Graves, I just didn't use him appropriately, which is to be expected at these early stages. Youko has a very interesting card, her front allows for unique interactions during the game, from drawing cards to manipulating cheat hands, the back of her card is also pretty good, giving out distracted is useful and its done in a thematic manner which adds to the flavour, Backroom dealings is a perfect bonus action for her, but Information network should really be a surge trigger, or a trigger to make the opponent discard a card, preferably on 'Riddles In The Dark', but the latter may be too powerful.

Overall, I believe the crew is in a pretty good position, it is a unique crew with good mobility and potential damage.

Last Blossom models can really hurt, Ototo is in a good place, 'The Storm is Coming' can offer good mobility and his damage track is still daunting. Misaki caused quite a lot of damage, but its my fault for bunching models up, it also didn't help that my opponent got the rams trigger on all 3 attacks. 'Abandon Honour' is pretty powerful, but it also needs to be managed. Torakage seemed good, as did Minako, Yamaziko can still do damage or scheme run if needed. One thing that may need to be monitored is the resistance trigger of the Tanuki, firstly it is after resolving, so as long as you don't die, you get an interact and a 6' place, this is very useful, and all you need is a tomes of any value, I guess it is mostly offset by the fact Tanuki are only 5 wounds, Df 5, but maybe reducing the place distance is appropriate.

Last Blossom, and Misaki especially also have a fun and effective playstyle, being able to place next to markers and murder targets is definitely useful and can be countered, I just didn't approach the game in this manner.

@SirPerryBerry's thoughts:

The Last Blossom are in a good place, Tanuki did really well this time around, but I feel like we need to keep an eye on them a bit.

Qi & Gong will need more playtesting and some work but they are pretty close to good and I feel they have some cool stuff.

I will probably be opening a thread in the 10T forum about Youko to gather up some more information and try to improve her crew further, if need be.

I hired a Tengu the other day to try out, I did it mainly for the bonus action to make a model interact, but after a turn or 2 I realised Yokai didn't really need assistance doing this, especially when combined with Ama No Zako's bonus action if needed. But then, if you can summon a Yokai over a Tengu, then it's probably worth it.

Ohaguro didn't stand out too much, she can lure which is nice, and diving charge can help positioning, she gave out slow to around 3 models which was useful. I think she is mainly used for disruption, as she can dart around with her two abilities and lure models.

I know a friend of mine, the resident 10T player at my local store, used to field 2 Brothers almost every game, partly because of the rules and partly because of the visual aesthetics of his collection.

I really like the flipping a card, applying a suit, tech but maybe that was removed for streamlining and speeding up the flow of the game?

I was going to try Shenlong first, but ended up playing Lynch and Yan Lo instead.

Anyway, I've decided that tomorrow I will playtesting Youko, her card and crew are daughting at first but I feel that, if she isn't playtested enough, it could be damaging. I'll take some of the problems brought to light, such as potentially giving her a surge trigger, and see how it goes.

I've only had one game with Yan Lo's crew so far, so my experience is limited.

I'm surprised Chiaki doesn't have a way of healing, as if I remember correctly, she was a support piece back in M2E who could heal and remove conditions. Maybe Sun Quiang fills this role now but I've yet to try him. With Yan Lo also being able to heal now, maybe it would have been too accessible.

Maybe adding a tomes trigger to either her Lure or Purity to give out distracted (like the beautiful clothing trigger that many models have) would provide her with a little more disruption. This would be useful on Purity, if models that pass duel gain distracted, as that way if they have not yet activated, they will either have to risk the negative flip, or focus to attack her, especially since she is only DF 4.

Adding a rams trigger to 'Dispel Magic' to heal 1 on the target might not be necessary, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

Hi,

So I've been playing Malifaux for almost 2 years now, mostly Neverborn until recently when I bought Asami, and brought Lynch, my first master, over to the Thunders. Since Neverborn have lost a lot of their appeal to me, I've decided to focus on playtesting 10T, as, at first glance, there is a lot of flavour and unique tech. 

In contrast to the other sub-forums, 10T has the least amount of posts, this could be due to many reasons, but I wouldn't want this to lead to certain models or masters being underplayed.

Therefore, I'm wondering, if on this thread we could devise a list of models that might need tweaking or haven't been played enough.

I understand there are lots of factors that impact the playtesting process, but I feel like highlighting certain models that may need looking at or simply playing will be beneficial. 

So, what models do you think may need more testing?

I haven't seen much about Youko's crew or 10T Brothers at the moment, so feel free to recommend some more.

Hopefully this thread gains traction and certain models are brought to light, I don't mind playtesting a variety, since I'll most likely be selling my Neverborn (except Collodi 😂) to fund the Thunders.

Hey, so me and my brother @Tsyuukii have been playing Malifaux for around 2 years now, and this is both our 3rd game in the open beta.

Things to consider:

This was our first game using both these masters, @Tsyuukii hadn't really read much of Nellie's crew, prior to the game, but played her often in M2E.

We focused more on scoring than denial, this was probably subconsciously happening as M3E schemes are harder to score, to some extent, so our focus went to scoring the 2nd point mostly.

Onto the game:

Strategy:
Plant Explosives

Schemes:
1 - Detonate Charges
4 - Search The Ruins * *
5 - Dig Their Graves
8 - Power Ritual
11 - Deliver A Message * *

Deployment: Standard

@INXVI - 6ss  Defender

Asami
Amanjaku
Ama No Zako (10)
Ohaguro Bettari (8)
Jorogumo (9)
Yokai (6)
Yokai (6)
Tengu (5)

@Tsyuukii - 6ss  Attacker

Nellie
Printing Press
Phiona (9)
Undercover Reporter (7)
Field Reporter (6)
Field Reporter (6)
False Witness (5)
False Witness (5)
Newsie (4)
Newsie (4)
Newsie (4)

Turn 1

Nellie has initiative, most models walked, Asami pushes a Yokai and Ohaguro, Phiona walks and pushes a recently charged Field Reporter, engaging the Jorogumo which gets up the board surprisingly fast, in what was probably an over-investment. Ohaguro lures the Jorogumo to correct this, Nellie gives the Jorogumo a press release upgrade, Field Reporters discard scheme markers placed by the False Witness to push. Ama No Zako charges Phiona.

Turn 2

Asami has initiative, the Jorogumo attacks another reporter, red jokering on a triple negative to hit, the field reporter dies after 2 hits, healing the Jorogumo. The Newsie does 1 damage to the Jorogumo and rids of the corpse marker nearby, no stones were added. Ama No Zako makes the Jorogumo interact to drop a Strategy marker. Ohaguro charges a False witness, doing damage then handing out slow. A Yokai interacts, heals 2, places, attacks with a positive, places, then misery places next to Ohaguro. The undercover reporter unburies, placing the Jorogumo in the deployment zone. Asami summons a Tengu and walks to assist with her auras. Tengu heals Asami and walks to engage Nellie. Printing Press attempts to kill the Tengu, the other Tengu then walks and 'Dark Bargains' the first Tengu, to deliver a message. Phiona causes damage to Ama No Zako, Amanjaku lowers Ama's flicker total. The False Witness and Reporter drop scheme markers.

Asami Scores 1 from Plant Explosives & Deliver A Message.

Nellie Scores 1 from Plant Explosives & Search the Ruins.

Turn 3

Asami has initiative, Yokai walk, charge to kill a Newsie and interact with the bonus action to place a scheme marker. The Undercover Reporter delivers a message. Asami summons a Tengu, allowing Ohaguro to place, she does 4 damage to the Undercover Reporter. Printing Press damages the Tengu and attaches a press release upgrade. Ohaguro drops a Strategy marker, charges to be within 2' of Asami, damages the Undercover Reporter, push aside to engage the Printing Press. Nellie, press release against Ama No Zako, cheated a red to prevent this, gives out slow to her and pushes Phiona. Tengu makes Yokai interact, heals Yokai and Asami. Phiona kills Ama No Zako and a Tengu. Yokai places and drops a scheme marker, Amanjaku reduces flicker. Reporters push.

Asami Scores 1 from Plant Explosives & Search the Ruins.

Nellie Scores 1 from Deliver A Message.

Turn 4

Nellie has initiative, gives Ohaguro an upgrade, gives Asami slow and causes a Yokai to be misplaced and attack for 2 damage. Asami pushes a Tengu further into the enemies half of the board and summons a Jorogumo. Phiona drops a Strategy marker, Jorogumo deals 11 damage to the Undercover Reporter after 2 attacks and a red joker, pushes a Yokai. Tengu drops a strategy marker. False Witness and Yokai do the same, the Yokai also drops a scheme marker. Field Reporter pushes and gives Asami Distracted, then pushes with the trigger. Yokai drops a scheme marker, Newsie charges Yokai to deal damage. Amanjaku lowers flicker on Ohaguro, then engages Phiona. False Witness, J'accuse Yokai, forces me to remove a scheme marker. Ohaguro gives out slow. Newsie causes more damage to Yokai.

Asami Scores 1 from Plant Explosives.

Nellie Scores 1 from Plant Explosives.

Turn 5

Asami passes initiative, Newsie causes damage and manages to kill a Yokai. Yokai drops a scheme marker with bonus action and charges the printing press, failing to do damage. The Printing Press pushes Ohaguro away. A Tengu walks and drops a scheme marker. Field Reporter drops a scheme marker and gives Asami Distracted, Nellie gives Asami and the Jorogumo slow. Ohaguro charges the field reporter for movement, then lures Phiona away. Newsie interacts to remove a Strategy marker. Amanjaku gives himself a positive on both Anchor Oni actions, fishing for the 6 of tomes, but fails, leaving the Jorogumo with slow. Asami attacks the Jorogumo, using a mask to get the trigger 'pushed here and there' to push the Jorogumo out of combat, Asami removes a marker with 2' to heal. Phiona places next to the reporter, pushing her, then dropping a marker next to Asami. Jorogumo pushes Asami, but not far enough to be out of the range of the scheme marker, the Jorogumo interacts to drop a marker within 2' of Nellie.

Asami Scores 1 from Deliver A Message & Search the Ruins.

Nellie Scores 1 from Plant Explosives, Deliver A Message & Search the Ruins.

7-7 Draw.

@INXVI

I enjoyed the game as a whole, the scheme pool focused a lot interact actions, so placement was key, we definitely didn't use all models to their full potential, but this is something that will come with experience. 

Asami and her crew, for me, are really interesting, M3E has opened up many changes for the game and some masters have lost their appeal. What we look for in a game, or equally, a master, is subjective but Asami has a unique and interesting tech that I can happily get behind. Yokai are great at achieving schemes and never really feel locked down. Managing Flicker is really interesting, in a way similar to The Dreamer's Waking in M2E. This fundamental part of the crew was the main reason why I bought and played The Dreamer and Flicker can fill that void.

Pushes are also another reason why I enjoyed the crew, my main master during M2E was Collodi, I liked the ability to push consistently, and rarely feel cornered by my opponent, this crew has access to pushes on almost every model, so the ability to correct positioning errors or achieve extra movement was great.

The standout moment during the game was the last few activation's of turn 5, the moments when a single move or misplay can cost you the game, and the on-the-spot tactics you enforce to help score VP, whether this be damaging your own models for triggers, or a top deck duel from both players.

@Tsyuukii

From the game we played it helped me gain a better understanding of M3E and how it works differently to M2E. An interesting aspect is that the schemes work completely differently, the bluffing factor has been reduced and the focus lies upon when to reveal the scheme to ensure that your enemy has a tough time stopping it. With the schemes we took it was difficult to stop the opponent from scoring as we had to focus our AP on scoring our own schemes and strategies. Overall that part of the game did make it challenging and as stated above, the last few activation's of turn 5 did help to determine the outcome of the game which made it tense.

I chose to play test Nellie and her thematic crew because they seemed interesting on the card, some masters have lost their appeal in the transition from M2E to the open beta however I did still see some appeal from Nellie. I mained Nellie before me and my gaming group stopped playing, I would play her at tournaments and often in casual games at the store I go to, this meant that I had a decent amount of experience with her and I can have a better understanding of the changes to her in this new edition.

Nellie herself looks good on the card however personally I think she is missing some actions to interact with her crew. She can disrupt enemies which definitely makes sense and works with her play style yet it feels like she is missing actions that target friendly models or benefit friendly models if an enemy is hit by them. This will most likely be because I enjoyed the way she played in 2nd edition and would like the model movement and manipulation she had to return in some form. 

The rest of the crew works how I would expect, disruption and low amounts of damage because they work with placement and conditions, as much as I miss 4 different triggers on a field reporter's action I do understand that it would often get confusing and I do acknowledge that the field reporters are very good in the beta. I used 2 of them in the game and they seemed to move around the board and cause problems for enemies with press release upgrades so I feel like that is how they work. Phiona does what she always has and hits things, she does it in different ways now but has definitely stayed true to her style.

I have only covered a few of the main models there but I do quite like how the crew works, by only having one game with them I have much to learn about how they work in different scheme pools but the 'Journalist' keyword does seem to be a strong and unique one.