JDAntoine

Looks should be the deciding factor. Its a miniatures game afterall While what @retnab says isnt incorrect there is a little bit of everything in every faction!

Hey hey hey that Lucius needed to become really good we said

Doesnt change the fact that it isnt a direct cuddle in the overall use in the attack. In my games I focused rarely with the Austringer in the latagame because of it. Additionally its still one of the best if not the best minion in our faction.

instead.

I believe if anything weve become more potent. This directly comes from Lucius' massive upgrades and thus allowing us to branch into Neverborn choices aswell. The one worry I had is in regards to the DM who is the only model who recieved an indirect cuddle and recieved nothing in options. Austringer can now focus and still not require LoS. As per Numb the World, Papa Loco has been optional without box competatively for a while. Other changes are largely the same or improvements. Leaving only Lady J to be a below competative average Master for us. Guild will do well in 2017 because our Wave 4 is very potent. Only summonning is missing from our options and I feel we can branch into at least as many options as TT now.

*Wrong topic*

When I look at all the cure little Gibbering Hordes and the Striped Skulker beady eyes, what's not to love?! We just need to see past the nine-inch fangs, claws and landsharks! But maby I'm just under the influence of a Siren's Call....

Fantastic, if anyone is up for a cardboard and mdf home-made variant I could set up a camera aswell. Preview: (for reasons blurry)

Had a quicky with a proxy for him and can only say I am convinced into going deeper with him. I like Mr. Graves and I like Mimics in general. Due to being rather faction purist though I will say that I currently have more plays planned for Sonnia, Perdita, Nellie and McCabe but I'm certainly looking for some quick ideas on general crews and general advantages people feel they have with those specific crews. The variant I've went for now is Lucius being much more upfield than I'd ever think I'd be.

Maby its on its way to become a Recruiter or Lone Marshal

Exact. I forgot to include Hoffman but he too is one of the examples that can branch over into other choices. In general I think that from a design standpoint and lore stantpoint this limitation was choces. Even as we speak the competition between Nellie and Lucius massively increased.

Problem solved, for future reference this link comes in handy: http://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=13890 Lucius: The Austringers sent Lucius a fruit basket with a nice card, and now he doesn't hate them as much. Gained +Mask to Defense (Re: Surprisingly Loyal upgrade). Devil's Deal reduced to 2 damage. Elite Training works on Melee attack and Horror flips of Minions, Mimics, and Guardsmen. Commanding Presence works on all friendly models, range reduced to 12”, TN dropped. Governor's Authority lasts until this model's next Activation. Guild Intelligence made a (0), lost its TN, and now works with all friendly models. TN of Issue Command lowered, Triggers changed around. The Scribe: Became a Minion. Insignificant changed to The Secretary's Eyes and Ears. Butler now affects all friendly models. Governor's Authority lasts until this model's next Activation. Removed Flurry, gained "Do You Have An Appointment?" Action.

Exactly, lore seems to be the main reason. It could certainly have worked out differently but I don't see it as a drawback only a slight restriction on the massive ammount of options. On the other side I also think they have done this because Mercs in their own way are a faction also (largely Outcast aswell). So with McMourning being Guild/Ress, you could see Lucius as Guild/Neverborn, McCabe as Guild/TT and Nellie as Guild/OC.

Which is what I also hope for. As is KE is an incredible powerful Empire, not solely focused on UK forces. I hope that Abyssinia will eventually represent the same, mixing in multiple parts of African tradition and lore. From my perspective we allready see this partially in the feathers and war paint. I hope this trend continues and even thickens for certain units, by large because I feel its too cool not to incorporate.

Neither does superb technology or soulstones. Point being is that I feel the design of TOS in no way should be restricted completely to real life history. There is a difference in adding stuff for the sake of coolness and I believe tribalism is allready included but could be put on there more. Just look at the crow feathers and warpaint. Added other animal aspects such as Lion robes and skulls would blend in perfectly in my opinion. It would be a mix of nature and technology, very fitting to Wyrds representation if Abyssinans so far.

Never knew that the thematic reasons to thake McCabe would get more responce as the functional reasons

The Pine Box is the litteral reason I thake them.

During the first turn this is hardly a concern, for me they are all means to speed up this crew, a crew which is allready fast for Guild norms. I can only advice giving it a go and see what wouldn't work out favourably. As above it's very melee centric with some medium ranged combat options in there but the most of the ranged support remains to come from McCabe anyway, the added Upgrade to the Emissary also changes depending on if I expect a swarm versus heavy hitting against the crew. The Armor becomes less relevant versus the heavy hitters and the Elixer becomes less relevant against swarms.

I don't agree with that for several reasons. The biggest one of that is that it's relatively easy to hide a key model from a Death Marshal if this is your intent. I certainly agree that the Pine Box is amazing on paper and that bury effects can be really good but the way the Pine Box works out now isn't anything too scary. A 2" rng on the Pine Box would significantly help and thus improve my reasons to thake a Death Marshal. I think the best part of it all is that Back in the Box from the Emissary is 3" aswell, making the 1" rng even less logical.

The option to stick Promises on McCabe is certainly there but the fun part of the Emissary is that he can toss Queeg into the places where the Guild Hounds have dropped their Schemes aswell. I personally like using Guild Hounds in both ways, with the added armor they generally make themselves useful for whatever is demanded of them.

Point well taken, it depends on what set of rules you use. For casual games my local meta still uses the regular M2E. For tournament variants I do not think Legalese is that interesting either. Suprisingly Loyal and Secret Assets would be my picks for the latter, pretty much always.

Double ranged strategies are certainly interesting to consider but I do believe that both Sonnia and Perdita archieve a better job at that as Lucius. The prime reason for that would be Lucius' own mobility versus that of Perdita and Sonnia's blast effectiveness versus that of Guild Trappers. A coure of double Austringers is allways excellent but the denial abilities Lucius brings are the abilities I cannot find in either Nellie, Hoffman or McCabe who otherwise serve similar Minion buffing Master roles. The idea of running a Death Marshal, Austringer and Witchling Thrall with two Changelings excites me a lot because it does not seem to include any significant weakness. We have a strong Rg plan, strong Ca plan and Ml plan at that point which with a foreward Lucius can be boosted rather well and Legalese becomes very strong with a forward Lucius Elite Training Death Marshal Pine Boxes is something you'd expect from Lady Justice but it seems Lucius is doing that way better

@DoctorWhat Will certainly try Phiona over Frank as soon as I have acces to her. Other than that I do believe Changelings are a better choice for Lucius as either Guild Hounds or Field Reporters, by large because of the utility you can get out of them. For certain Guild Hounds are solid but I feel they are much better with McCabe and Field Reporters are also wonderful choices but I feel this applies much more for general Guild Masters. If you have the acces to Changelings it feels like your robbing yourself if you are not using them. As is I also feel that the Mimic side is the stronger out of the two for Guild. Thanks to the changes I feel the 'balance' of Suprisingly Loyal has been seriously restored since the Changeling release.

If some really likes Killjoy, then sure add him to the mix aswell, no need for excuses if you like the model. I do however think that Nellie offers something more specifically for Mercs like him but there is nothing stopping anyone from trying it with Lucius either. I think we had several topics regarding Lucius and also saw severl decent plans then, decent plans that now become great because Lucius has most certainly recieved the upgrades we where all looking for. Since Ludvig seems to have a love for him, it's fair to just remind us of what has been discussed before: What has been mentioned there by @Hagisman is something I think can still apply to date. A mix of Minions should do the trick and I think either the choice for Guardsmen or Mimics is the propper way to go with him. Some crew sketches - Lucius (SL, SA), Francisco Ortega (WI, HDA), Mr. Graves, Witchling Thrall, Guild Austringer, Death Marshal, Changeling, Changeling, +4 - Lucius (SL, SA, L), Francisco Ortega (WI, HDA), Mr. Graves, Doppleganger (ADttG), Death Marshal, Guild Austringer, Changeling, Changeling, +4 - Lucius (SA, L), Francisco Ortega (WI, HDA), Captain Dashel (AH), The Scribe, Death Marshal, Guild Austringer, Guild Austringer, Guild Guard, Guild Guard, +4 Plans As is I think going the more offensive route with Lucius has become a whole lot more viable than before for several reasons, amongst which the change to: 1. Devil's Deal, to make sure Lucius doesn't have to die fast. 2. added to Df, making Suprisingly Loyal suprisingly good. SL making me want to include Mr. Graves (beater) and Changelings (utility scheme runners). 3. MASSIVE improvement to Elite Training, makes me want to have at least one Death Marshal. 4. MASSIVE improvement to Issue Command, makes me want to have at least one Austringer. The result of the above changes make me believe that Mr. Graves is the perfect bodyguard for him which we cannot find in the same way in the Guild. Obviously Francisco can do a wonderful job in keeping Lucius alive but as we probably all know, there is a big difference between Frank and Graves. Adding both however should allow us to get some real good use out of Legalese. Adding Mr. Graves requires Suprisingly Loyal but due to the change to Lucius' Df trigger I think it's now always worth it. What it also does is give us some amazing acces to (for Lucius) amazing scheme runners in the form of Changelings. A tactic allready applied by many Lucius Neverborn players. Due to the change of Elite Training and Issue Command I think we'd be cutting ourself if we didn't include at least one Austringer and one Death Marshal. Despite my critique on the change to the DM I almost certainly want to include him here thanks to Elite Training. I believe Lucius' way to victory for 2017 lies in making all his buffs relevant, to have something extremely potent. As a result I'll likely mix sketch 1 and 2 into each other to create a real potent 'Nellie-like' list but instead of relying on a mix of Guild and Mercs it will rely on a mix of Guild and Mimics.

Absolutely agree with the premise that 2-3 Guild Hounds usually are enough, the prime reason as to why I'm currently including 4 more often comes from the Brutal Emissary inclusion, which isn't mandatory but still very fun. Having it walking around with either Elixir of Life or Strangemetal Shirt. The latter works out with Guild Hounds rather well so your able to rely on them a bit better as usual. When you don't feel like losing the Brutal Emissary it becomes rediculousy tough to kill with Elixir of Life. The best thing I like with the BE and McCabe is that it really allows you to split up the crew in small and very effective pockets. To which the only real choice your forced to make is to find a good spot for Queeg with Promises, a Queeg I usually protect with Francisco. The crew lacks the ranged capabilities of Sonnia and Perdita but certainly makes up for it with extremely likely hits, hard hits and also a good survivability allround.