Platov

If you trigger stampede, you can, actually, kill whisperer. Stampede tells us, that pig should charge closest model it is not engaged with. And that would be whisperer, cuz friendly models do not engage each other, as far as i remember. Correct me if im wrong.

Somer-bowling is 1 AP. You first push him with bayou and banjonista, and them charge him with pig, 2 attacks from charge push you up to 16", and then you still have 1 AP, to do 2 more charges within 1st activation. Normal+Stampede one. And Master in the enemy deploy, well, it doesn't matter if you table opponent. And if he counters pigs - you are done anyway. It's kinda all-in surprise-attack list. You either table opponent turn 1, and he surrenders, or you surrender yourself.

And what if Major takes saddle, and then pushes only one pig forward ~12", and then follows her, with the whisperer? 6+12+5+9(charge)=32, it's quite far. And the second pig charges Somer, bowles him over 2 times, pushing 16+as far, as Somer can get with Loudest squeal(about 8" more). So, second pig gets 6+8+16 + 9(charge) = 39" I mean, the way it explained in the first post is not the only way this roster can attack.

But in the end, such terrain is the exact reason, why turn 1 alpha works, and why such threads are born. Imo, Hog Whisperer is OP and will get cuddles quite soon, tho.

Well, that's why there were alot of diffirent OP-lists in our meta. But people find how to counter any OP list, in some time. Card-draw Viks, Hans+2trappers, Changeling Gunline. Those lists dominate the tournaments, people talk about open tables, and nothing changes in years. So, i guess, that's how it is here, in Moscow.

Ok, there you go. Tables from last week tournament in our meta.

I ment no offence, sorry if it souded like i'm accusing you. I'll take photos during game, and try to explain what was going on. About terrain, well, there is other Somer list, that utilizes flight(iron skeeters), with same card draw, but with Burt and Franc, and Trixie. Like, 4 activations of quite evil beaters in a row(Burt+Franc with fast and reckless, end of turn 1 + star on turn 2, with companion, and cheating initiative). It can, sometimes, table opponent turn 1-2, and with flight terrain doesn't matter much.

I'm not the author of this list. And, to tell the truth, i don't even know how vassal works, never tried it, and, to tell the truth, don't want to. I prefer real games, and I'm going to play one. Not to prove anything. I don't like the concept of "proving", or braging about how "I gonna 10-0" somebody. It's kinda presumptuously and dumb, no offence. I never told that this list in ubeateble, I only told that most of people here don't understand, that it's much scarier than it looks on paper, i've tested it for 10+ times(for Guide-writing purposes, not noobstomping), with diffirent players(again, not newbies), and i won all 10+ games. I want to test it against Levi, because i have lost 3 of 4 games against that opponent, so obviously, he is better then me, and now im curious if he will find a way to counter this list. You should really ask @looka, he's better player then me, and maybe he will agree to play vassal game.

I think, most players in this thread should, at least once, play against this roster, controlled by not-newbie gremlin player. It will give more understanding, than pointless talks. As for me -i'll find some time, and i'll ask our best Levi player to face this roster, and i'll see, if he can 10-0 me. Ofc, I will make a little report in this thread.

Well, yep, i guess you are right. Terrain is a huge problem in our meta. Tables a quite empty.

I guess, you are right, but as i said, it's hard to explain in theory. Peackeeper can be blocked by a model behind him, so no push. Or war pig can push him, and end up between 2 of your models, it's quite situational, so i think we shouldn't talk much about it. The point of the topic is not the stampede, but how to counter this roster. Preferebly, with Guild master.

Well, as was mentioned before, just yesterday i finished my Somer guide, and this list was included in it. And from now on, alot of players in 3 countries, who read my guides, will use it, so there will be quite a lot of this roster in our meta.

Well, yes, stampede is quite tricky thing to use. But then again, I usually use bowled over at 1 attack, and then stampede. And of course, you don't get total 120 damage output from this list, but around 40-70 is always possible, and that is quite alot. And, as first pig dives in, it pushes and kills enemy models, making in easier to stampede with second pig or second activation of first pig.

Yep, but you don't have to charge to BtB of peacekeeper. In straigt line, yes, but you just have to end charge movement in engage with peacekeeper. But it's really hard to talk about this theorethically. It really depends on exact positioning, i think.

Yes, i know who are you talking about.

Once again, i have seen such things. Only real set up in this roster, is card draw. I got Nekima in my deployment zone turn one, once. Pigs don't really care, when to activate, Yes, you can activate them last, but you don't HAVE to. And also, you can charge enemy alpha-strike model with Mayor, before activating pigs. But still, it MIGHT work. I think, Victoria can whirlwind this crew, and cripple it. But snipers will do better. UPD. I mean, most of this roster is about finding a way, to charge enemy models. If enemy plays aggresivly, he tends to move to the center of the map, so you don't have to think about pushes anymore. You just walk and charge then.

Im not sure lure will work. As for me, if I see lures, i'll wait, and don't activate Mayor. He have 2 activations, so he can just follow pigs later in turn. As for blocking with 50mm models, it's not very good idea. Pig will charge him, and then use stampede trigger to go further into your crew. Again, if its were me, i would just ignore peacekeeper turn one, and just bounce from him with pigs. Even if peacekeepre survives, it doesn.t matter, if i kill rest of enemy crew.

Somer player here. First of all, Rostislav, thank you for posting. I see, you translated part of my Somer guide in English. )) Now, let me clear this thing for you. This roster is really, like REALLY evil. It doesn't look so on paper, but 2 warpigs with reactivate can do ALOT of damage. (Like, around 130 dmg maximum, 60 average), and can wipe entire enemy crew on turn 1. It's true, played it for, like, 10+ times, against diffirent masters, and won them all. You just wipe enemy turn one, and he surrenders. Now, to the answers. First, roster can be countered with right positioning, and I don't think Sonnia will work, it depends on terrain tho. You are mistaking Mayor and Mechanized Porkchop. Mayors aura works if pig just activates in it. 1)... 2) It doesn't really matters against turn one EVIL alpha strike. 3) Same as 2 4) You don't get the idea. Somer player takes 12-15 cards from the deck, he have 6 in start hand, and sycles around 8. It's more then half of the deck. Good hand here is not just luck, it;s maths. But even IF Somer player ends up with bad or average cards in hand, all the good cards are still in deck. And then, pigs charge with plus flips for attack and damage, drawing 2 cards for each attacks, and one card at averege for damage flip. It's not about luck, it's about maths. Yes, there is still a chance, that Somer player will have bad flips. But it's EXTREMLY unlikely. 5) You don't get it. You don't just get charged. You get charged turn one, after ~10 activations(and you don't have a models to react, cuz u are outactivated), and you get charged 10 times, with model witch have plus flips for damage and attack. 2\4\6. It's not scary. It's devastating to most masters. 6) On that one, i agree. As for counter set-ups... Well, charge-preventing auras will work. Outactivation will work. Blocking LoS will work. And control-heavy masters or snipers will work. Good Idea is Zoraida, obeying Warpig at turn one(Flying with her(2) first), to charge Hog Whisperer, and if your opponent are not very bright - stampeding Cryer\Bayou gremlin. But it's interesting topic to talk about. I hope, my english is readeble.

Well, I actually write big articles bout gremlin masters. But it's not in english. And Im not sure if my english is good enough to translate it. If someone wants to help with translation - we can translate big articles bout Wong, Mah, Zipp, Ophelia(a bit outdated tho), Brewmaster, and Somer(finishing it, atm). UPD. I mean, i need a good editor for this. Google-transleted version is readeble, but awfully unpolished. I can explain all complicated phrases, but im not sure i can rewrite them in english. And, also, articles are quite big. About 20-30(Arial, 14) pages each in Google Docs. Guides are tested a lot, and approved by community of my country. Sorry for bad english.

Oh, come on. Mah is niether weakest, nor even weak master. She's tricky, you just have to master her, but Mah, imo, is one of the strongest Gremlin masters. I loved her before book 5(No one EVER expected to see Mah on the table, and no one really knows how to counter her), and after book 5 she became amazing master. First - Mah is not Lady J. Don't attack with her if you are not sure you can kill the target. With her mobility she can deal with enemy schemerunners easily. Also, she is good at hit-and-run, if you activate her late so, if you activate her last, and then win initiative - you can make 4 charges in a row, and then run away to safety. Second - mobility. Mah is not just mobile herself. She also helps her crew ALOT. So, using heavy hitters with limited mobility is always good option. Mancha is just perfect for that. Third - Trixie is not mandatory. If you need chores - just take emissary, he is good with Mah(like, really good. And he can paralize models for Mancha insta gib). Mah likes meele crews, she can move them, she can buff them. So, huge ml beaters are always an option. Mancha(!!!), Burt(!!), Golem, Emissary. Franc is optional, tho, too long to explain why. Crier are good for card draw. As for minions - wrastlers(!!) are really good, with a little push from Mah, and a little set up they can hit 2 times with Ml 8, and 4(!!!) damage flips from a single charge. Survivers are good, too. They can shoot with Ml stat, and ok damage for 4SS model. Also, forget about Lass. Cranky is just better. Mah is a good master. Her problem is her crew. Bushwackers are just not good enough, and you don't really need Trixie and Lass, making her box a little bit worthless. Summarizing, I played with Mah a lot. And lately i had more than good win rate. Like, 7 wins for 10 games with her. And i feel, i can do better. As for crew, i use this as a template: 50 SS Gremlins Crew Mah Tucket + 4 Pool - Manifest Destiny (1) - Know The Terrain (1) - Out For Blood (2) Mancha Roja (9) - Dirty Cheater (1) Lucky Emissary (10) - Conflux of Bushwhacking (0) Burt Jebsen (8) - Dirty Cheater (1) Gremlin Crier (7) Wrastler (5) Wrastler (5) If you need card draw - you swap wrastler for cranky. If you need initiative - emissary for trixie, and so on.

Actually, as was said above: "Som'er + Family Tree with one Banjonista and 14 Bayou Gremlins can draw his entire deck into his hand if he summons 4 more". So no, you can't. )

@Ludvig Yep, there is not so many crews in Malifaux, who can outactivate this roster. But, as i said, it has some weak spots, but still it's surprisingly good for such freakish roster.

@Ludvig It can't outactivate Hamelin. And it can be countered ofc. But let me count. Skeeter, Banjonista, Crier, Bayou Gremlin, Whisperer, Somer, Bayou Gremlin, Old Major, Old Major again. - 9 activations, and you should be ready to dive in with pigs. 13 activations total.

Hm. Somer is quite good at card draw, actually. And recently i encountered roster with about 15 cards in hand at turn one, witch actually works. Banjonista+Crier+Somer, first, killing Crier with df stances, to discard\draw, then get 3 cards for dead crier, git'er bro summoned gremlin 3 times(With skeeters giving masks), to get 9 cards more. It gives you around 14+ cards. Second part of crew is hog whisperer, old major and two warpigs. This crew is about devastating alphastrike at turn 1, with 2 reactivating war pigs with + for attacks and damage(First time from major, second time from "one pig against the world"). And with rams from Somer(who can be pushed to the enemy part of the table, to give out rams), it gives you ALOT of charges with pluses and 2\4\6 damage. And if you do things in right order - this crew actually works, and it's pretty effective, since by the time you dive in with pigs - you are already outactivating your enemy.

Hm. Okay, let me post couple of rosters i usially use. with a bit of explanations. 50 SS Gremlins Crew Wong + 6 Pool - A Gremlin's Luck (1) - Do Over (1) Old Cranky (4) Sammy LaCroix (7) - Ooo Glowy (1) Burt Jebsen (8) - Dirty Cheater (1) Swine-Cursed (7) Swine-Cursed (7) Lightning Bug (5) Lightning Bug (5) Standard agressive Wong crew. Wong makes Burt magical. Wong shoots and places markers. Sammy\Old Cranky draw cards, Curseds and Burt kill enemy models, and Bugs do schemerunning. 50 SS Gremlins Crew Mah Tucket + 4 Pool - Manifest Destiny (1) - Out For Blood (2) Mancha Roja (9) Trixibelle (8) Burt Jebsen (8) - Dirty Cheater (1) Gremlin Crier (7) Wrastler (5) Wrastler (5) Survivor (4) Melee-oriented crew for Mah. You can remove surviver for more upgrades or little lass, you can remove trixie for emissary. Mah gives +1ml to crew, and pushes them around. Mancha+Burt kill stuff. Crier follows Mah for card draw. Trixie pushes stuff with lure, wrastlers support\schemerun, depends on where they are more needed. 50 SS Gremlins Crew Zipp + 4 Pool - No Quarter (1) - Rambling Diatribe (1) - The Dread Pirate Zipp (1) Earl Burns (3) The First Mate (9) - Where The Captain Can't See (1) - Treasure Map (0) Francois LaCroix (8) Burt Jebsen (8) - Dirty Cheater (1) Iron Skeeter (6) - Poorly Handled Explosives (0) Lightning Bug (5) Bayou Gremlin (3) Bayou Gremlin (3) Zipp's crew with high mobility. Zipp disrupts enemies, and teleports around via Dread Pirate. Burt and Franc kill, while Skeeter moves them around, giving fast. Bug and Bayous shemerun. First Mate goes for enemy schemerunners. But it's just a templates. You just need to play, get used to models, and learn some new tricks. Like, right order of activations, or model's unusual abilities(like Mancha insta-gib combo, or Skeeter+Frank sling). There are alot of stuff, and it will take alot of time to explain, but with some experience you can figure it out yourself. Sorry for my broken English.