Whut

What about in a scenario with Reckoning/MakeThem Suffer, or both? Imagine some big beasty henchman charging a spider and earning 2 VP off of that kill (with another reckoning kill elsewhere)

Hey guys my community seems to be sticking to 35 stones for a while (BOO!) but while they do, I might as well try to increase my chances of winning. What in the heck does anyone do against Sonnia? Besides taking 2 raptors and a Cerberus/Myranda every game one plays against Guild to kill her? Would Howard take priority compared to Joss? With less enemy threats and each kill being that much more important, I feel like Howard the hasty killer will be able to put much more pressure on the enemy than Joss the immovable brick. (Except for Joss with Warding Runes against Ressers ) Is the Brass Arachnid worth it? Spending 4 stones on a peon seems bad but two Howard Activations is disgusting. Is Mech Rider better or worse at 35? On the one hand, she summons more models and is a tough cookie herself, though not too offensively powerful. On the other, taking up 12 points in the list means less points for other options (especially after the mandatory 10-12 point beatstick I include in every list ever). I feel like it may slow down your early game but give a large power boost to the late game. What other masters get a power boost at this level? Which suffer?

Can you elaborate a little on how this works? Do you take 1 Acolyte or 2? Cassandra I assume for another prompt? Do you take Mech Rider? Do you have a Frontline (something that can soak a bit of damage: Joss, Howard, Large Arachnid, etc) or do you just finesse around and make sure you don't get hit while accomplishing schemes? Would like to know cause I'm currently havING trouble fitting everything I want into a 50 SS Colette list xD

So on average how much "oomph" do you need to prepare in a list to survive and get the Job done? For example I usually see Ramos lists with Howard, Joss, Johan, and the brass arachnid for a total of up to 4 activations of heavy hitting. Currently I'm thinking of some Colette general ideas and I've come to something along the lines of: Colette, Upgrades Mech Rider Cassandra December Acolyte Performer Effigy 7 SS left This seems to me like a great start (swap things in and out as needed for schemes). But I'm left without a strong central model like Joss, Howard, etc. Mech Rider and Cassandra are nice, but with 2/4/5 damage tracks are really more of Flanking/Support pieces than a central brick that dishes out tons of hurt. How many models is one comfortable to start with without worrying about heavy out-activation? Is not having a big scary tank in the middle going to be a large downside? Etc and so on. Any comments greatly appreciated

Yes, this

So I won't start my own thread about this but I will add to this one: Here is my basic Raspy list against Ressers, Neverborn, and Outcasts (though it's generally good against anyone, really): Raspy: 5 pool Arcane Reservoir Cold Nights Armor of December Snowstorm, Warding Runes, Imbued Energies Joss, Warding Runes, Imbued Energies Wendigo Arcane Effigy Ice Gamin x3 The list obviously revolves around the central trio of Raspy, Joss, and Snowy, who are all difficult to cast at (Belles, Beckoners, Leveticus, Collodi, etc). However I feel like those three alone are not enough to protect the many slow ice gamin that will be trying to run schemes. Any sort of strong fast model or shooty model can easily wreck the little gamin. My idea was to remove 2 gamin and replace them with Myranda with Imbued Energies. This can allow me to have a fast blessed of December in the list who can get further than halfway across the board on turn 1 even. However I have never before used a list without any summoning, and having only 7 models to start with also scares me. Meaning if my opponent picks off a few models I may easily be out activated soon enough. Also if I do this will I be able to have enough frozen heart models? Or what if my one remaining gamin gets picked off and I lose that +1 damage aura? At this point I'll just stop because I have so many thoughts that I'm just rambling. I'm just looking for any general advice, taking into account my ideas and worries. Thanks! EDIT: The reason I have a pre-built list is simply because I want so much in a Raspy list that by the time I'm done building a "core", I've already run out of soulstones and have a complete list

Arcanists IMO: Tier 0.9: Colette Tier 1: Ramos, Raspy Tier 2: Marcus, Mei Tier 3: Kaeris, Ironsides Although I look at Ironsides and her passive bonus to M&SU and I can't help but think she is "sleeper OP". As in, she is stupid powerful but no one has tapped that potential with a perfectly crafted list.

In my opinion there is no real "mobbing" strategy. That implies something like Ramos tossing spiders into the enemy would be very good when in reality they will just kill a few and toss the markers somewhere outside the spider's engagement range to pick up. It's more of a denial strategy. Try to get models that are reasonably fast and cheap (so you can run them in pairs) that can stay clear of engagement and can run schemes that require placing markers rather than engaging. Off the top of my head I think molemen would be pretty good as a model that won't die in pairs (so one can pick up the marker of the other) and can escape engagement by pushing (placing?). Fire gamin is another one I think will be pretty good. Not only can they do the above, they are also a threat enough to require dying, and if you can kill an enemy model with burning at range, he doesn't drop a head! Just a few things I thought up literally right now

I'm honestly super afraid of Gremlins in this strategy. What are you supposed to do against 2 to 6 bayou gremlins that are off running schemes if you can't risk killing them (assume your opponent is smart enough to run them in pairs/threes and stays out of your charge range reasonably well) Not to mention at a moments notice a gremlin can fast, walk, focus, shoot, drop a 13 of rams followed by a severe for 6 damage (6 with a blast? Can't remember) while simultaneously killing itself and denying the marker. Or francois who can saddle on a pig, activate, fast, charge, kill, interact.

I've always wanted to use the Captain and I'm glad that hid pushes might come in handy in this strategy. However my concern is the exact opposite: I feel he is extremely expensive and therefore a squishy liability for the points. I mean, Df6 is nice, but aside from souls tones for prevention he doesn't have much else to brag about in terms of defense. I'll be glad to get proven wrong My vote in this strategy goes to Colette and Howard Langston. 0 action interacts are going to be brilliant for keeping up the tempo, prompt can be used to let a far away model who already activated grab a marker, as well as get models unengaged so they can move to pick up markers. Howard is Howard. Difficult to argue with someone who can walk, flurry, and then 0 action to pick up a marker all in one turn. EDIT: Derp this is wrong I also disagree that shooty models are useless. One thing that is awesome in this strategy is spreading damage early to allow for easier kills later, and slow. I can think of a model that can do both of these very well, is not a pushover in melee as long as it takes a focus action, and is even better with Colette.

Hey anyone up for a game Wednesday? Doesn't matter when as long as it doesnt last past 7pm est

True, though the net result is that Joss is 4" behind where he would be anyway (10" double walk vs 6" charge), he really won't be doing anything else first turn. Similarly, generally Ramos will have nothing better to do with his other 2 AP first turn than walk up, or can Magnet to an enemy construct instead. The tradeoff is 1 more soulstone in your pool and an extra scrap from Joss. I think it's well worth it to guarantee yourself 2 turns of summoning, and even if you do get some extra scrap by turn 2, later on that marker can be scooped up to use Combat Mechanic if you took that upgrade, allowing scrap closer to the center of the table to be used for later summons. You also avoid the possibility of black jokering the magnetize and having to shoot the thing anyway. EDIT: I could see the argument for close deployment, and the creation tactic isn't BAD, I just prefer the toolkit.

No its not easier to use the creation. Joss can kill a toolkit in one hit. If he charges, there is no way he can fail to do that, even if he flips a black joker in one of the duels. This is also 1SS cheaper than a Creation, and drops 2 scrap instead of 1, giving you fuel for spiders until turn 3, by which time some construct has definitely died and provided more scrap. The only reason I would ever use the creation is of I actually wanted to use the toolkit itself for the plus flips to damage and such. And I suppose also if you REALLY needed Joss 4" further up on first turn, but even then I would just take Angelica and push him.

I'm so excited to feel dirty when using this xD Not sure if I should feel bad or good haha. Thanks so much!

1) Can Colette apply her mask trigger against a friendly Dove's explosion? - I believe yes, as it is a Df Duel. 2) Can Colette apply her mask trigger against a friendly Dove's explosion, and sacrifice that same Dove as the "discard a scheme marker" effect? Technically at the time of applying damage, the dove is still in play, no? It seems cheezy even if it is possible...

Would you mind if I asked what exactly the way to beat Levi is? I can't speak for everyone, but at least from the Arcanist perspective I can't see any way to deal with everything he can bring. To survive his crew (Ashes&Dust in particular), Armor helps, but Levi himself rips through armor. Ashes is so fast its hard to hit him first, and Levi can attack from super far away, ignoring cover. Even if you do hit either of them hard enough to kill them, you didn't accomplish much because either of them can easily come back, and your (most likely expensive) model is now trapped in the middle of the opponent's crew, ready to die. I suppose crews with strong shooting elements (Sonnia, Perdita, Gremlins) will have an easier time?

If you don't mind I'd like to derail this for just one second: Are two large arachnids a good idea? I've always been wary of using two models that use the same resource (Two Large Arachnids > markers, two Rail Workers/flurry models > cards) as that may drain that resource too quickly. Do you ever run out of Scrap to fuel the spider? Or ever find that you are just barely out of range of a scrap marker that could have given you the bonus? Or most importantly, does it drain your hand of a potential severe card to try to get that Juicy 6 damage, because the 2/3 of low/moderate is very underwhelming on a 6 point model that is made for combat.

Ahhh yes I completely forgot. I suppose that does make it quite a bit safer.

Anyone up for a game Friday 2/6/15, starting around 3:30 - 4pm EST?

You don't have to have burning synergy on absolutely EVERYTHING. Firestarter is enough to fuel Kaeris when she needs it. With one or two more models that can do some Burning stuff, you should be okay. Fire or Metal gamin would be my choice, though I'm not a Kaeris player. Also I like the upgrade on her to give her the trigger to push enemies 3". For Squatters you can push someone off of a marker. In Turf War, activate Kaeris last in the turn and push a model or two away from the Turf Marker. Those are strats for which missing out on VP just once could lose you the game, because its so easy for your opponent to get. Also personally, I hate Gunslingers. Even with the to the attack flip, doing 2/3/whoCares damage is not a good investment for 7 stones in my opinion. The fast is difficult to obtain, and being able to choose your trigger costs you the . You may get more milage out of it, but I'd rather go for a December Acolyte

Marionettes can pass the condition to another Marionette upon death though, so you could technically block 5 instances of damage in one turn without needing to re-apply the condition. Also does the Beckoner's Lure work like Belle's Lure, allowing for movement around terrain? Or does it stop when you hit terrain?

If you lack heavy hitters, what is stopping you from taking Joss, Johan, etc?

Sorry for the 3 threads in 3 days, I'll slow down for a bit after this one Just read over Collodi's card in an attempt to research Guild and Neverborn, which I've heard are very popular in my meta. With nearly every other master I've read over, I've been slightly scared but for the most part okay with the challenge of killing them. Not this guy. First I read his main attack action. woah. Ca7 + rg 10 with no means super high chance of hitting. 2/3/4 with a built in, which is already enough for a support master. Well, it also auto-slows, and has 2 triggers that make my models move completely out of position or attack me, shut them down completely. Well, at least he's squishy. NOPE! He can get up to armor 3 if ever in danger, auto-triggers a 3" push on Df, and ignores damage up to 4 times by sacrificing a 3 point model. Well, at least he has to pay 12 points for the models to fuel this. NOPE! A 3 point significant model with hard to kill and some minor support abilities, which can gain fast on command. I would take 4 of these in every list ever. Well, at least Collodi is in a slow 6'' bubble of death NOPE! His henchman can pull him towards her, giving him an effective threat range of 22''. Not to mention he can take plenty of options in his list that don't need the support 6" bubble to be effective. Coryphee, Teddy, Illuminated, etc Not to mention a Beckoner being able to pull up to 6 times, with up to 4 times being with a , from 18" away, on turn 1. After I'm out of activations. There is no glaring weakness I can see to this master at all. Any model who may even remotely be a threat to their crew, Collodi can shut down, and you will ALWAYS be out-activated because he gets 4 models for 12ss before taking anyone else. Most lists I've seen on the forums have around 9-11 models. Most of my own lists max out at 6 or 7 + Mech Rider summons later on. My only thought was to take Raspy and try to blast them ASAP, but the moment Snow Storm places her in range, I feel she will soon be slowed, attacked by Snow Storm, pulled in by a Beckoner (even with 3 Wk, Collodi > 4 pulls with , companion, move a puppet 10" and you're in combat), or any combination of the three. If using Shattered Mirror, Collodi can just kill/pull/obey your models out of range, or even worse, I don't want to take shots from my own December Acolyte. What in the world does one do against this horrific master?

So you would say they are still always worth taking? Is there any faction/crew against which you would never use them? Or any that they would be better off against? Is there any scheme that they make much easier to achieve? What about the Oxfordian mage and silent one I mentioned earlier? I'm always worried they would get downed quickly by a single high damage attack, or in the case of the Mage, he will be left without a target once combat hits (Unless you take blood ward, but then you don't get the tome from nemesis ward so what is the point?)

I've been looking at Coryphee a lot lately and they look VERY impressive. However, at the same time I'm struggling to actually take the step to take them in a list for one key reason: 4 wounds. Even with the + built in and armor 2, I'm just so scared that someone will either walk up and smack one with an armor ignoring attack, or a sniper will just focus and cheat in 6 damage, killing it outright. I actually get a similar sniper fear when thinking of Oxfordian mages and silent ones (less so). Especially against Gremlins and Seamus and such, that's super scary to lose a 6 or 7 point model (and an activation) to a 1-2 AP shot. Can people share their experiences and tactics on this subject? Is this fear rational?