Sybaris

The fatemaster's almanach's Neverborn generic description may be the cause for my memory bumble (as i may have thought "so that explains it" when reading the part where it says that some neverborn can choose their appearance or at least evolve differently). That said i had in mind a passage where it said that her form suited her...or something to that effect. It could be linked with pandora's stories indeed. At least i think it was in the first editions book. Couldn't find it so i assumed i just made that conclusion over time.

You can see the pictures at the start of the thread. What is AWP?

Well that's the easier way to get it done, i guess....but imho that was not the issue. It was the model's size, and that didn't have much to do with what was paid for it. 25$ for something i won't use is better than 35$...yes. But i'd still prefer 35$ for something i would use. Thanks for wyrd to actually do something, never easy in business, even if it's not what i hoped it would be. ---- That said, please..by all means...please make a Nightmare version of Nekima. You got the rules down this edition...so with the right model (and you don't even need to change the pose or sculpt, just resize)....it'd be perfect...finally.

To support the idea that it might be a scale issue, i'm looking at the rest of the range. There's quite a few of the previously "large" miniatures that actually got beefed up rather than shrinked down on the metal-to-plastic transition. The features on human sized models are finer (compare Lilith versions or Lady Justice) but the big guys got bigger from what i can see (Lord Chompy Bits, Ice Golem, Bad Juju, Rogue Necromancy, Sabertooth and Adder...etc.). The new big guys are also pretty large...If someone could put the Rail Golem and Cojo besides the new and old Nekima...it'd illustrate the point as well. P.S. i won't touch the model atm, i'll wait for an official answer as well. What does worry me is that Wyrd has been silent on this so far...i mean they obviously opened some boxes for QA and saw the product before shipping it.

@Fetid: the potential market also depends on a faction's popularity and the characters concepts appreciation by the players. Then we must add the popularity of a model for its own value as a miniature (i.e. some model types can generate sales just by being of that type...in which case i dare say Nekima has an advantage on the models you named, even though i guess Killjoy may also enjoy some attraction with all zombie/rotting games going on). And then we need to add all other factors we don't even know or can only speculate about. So all in all, i personally don't think we can make a precise assessment on the "potential market" to justify a pricing policy without the numbers that Wyrd have. They certainly are aware of how popular or irrelevent it is...so for all we know they may have priced that model at 35 in expectation of high OR low sales. To me that means we are just completely in the blue about it. The thing is, some of us are not satisfied with the size of the model, either because it doesn't fit the character as we "expected" to get, or because of the price tag attached to it. Those two reasons are valid from a customer's point of view.

Speaking of %, personally I'd go for 1.5 of what she's at atm, so 50% bigger. The sculpt is quite good, and in fact a larger model would make it even better, too. If it was just 20% off the right scale, i wouldn't bother to be honest and live with it...but it's just too far from expectations.

@Vorschlag: sure here goes "Her cloven hooves dug into the earth, and she rose, towering above the nearest man, easily doubling his size." "...and the creature's great sword, as long as a horse and wider than a man's waist..." Malifaux - Rising Powers, Ambush, p. 19 So the metal model was actually the correct size when taking the 1.5 fluff into account. Those stories are still recognised as valid, are they?

Here's what i've done with my wife. I made her read the fluff. She loved it, and by the end of the stories she knew what masters she wanted to play (Rasputina, the Viks and Colette and had fondness toward Ophelia). So i got those crews and we then started very, very small with the rules. She had no wargaming background, so we started with a couple of minions. Then we introduced a henchman with some soulstones, and in the end Masters. Keep in mind that this was during the first edition of Malifaux which was far more complicated than this one, so you can probably get it going with henchmen right away. Still, start small no matter what she picks. Given Colette was a bit of a challenge for a newbie, we kept that crew for last. But basically my advice is to have her read the fluff so she picks what she has interest in. She'll then be "hooked" enough to go through the process of learning the rules and enjoy the challenges they offer. By now my wife has played plays Raspy, Viks, Ophelia and she's now working toward Colette.

Imho Nekima has a potential for a broader market than just Neverborn players. The "Winged female demon" theme is by and large popular (given the amount of sculpts found from different companies). Personally it's how i found Malifaux, as i was looking for a generic "succubus" miniature for another game, which ultimately made me discover Wyrd and brought us (wife and i) as followers and backers of the game. Bottom line is we don't know why she's that size, or why she's that price. Wyrd likely has a much clearer idea. As a customer and fan of Malifaux and Nekima the least i can do (and that's all i can do) is to voice my concern and hope that something is done about it.

@ Vorschlag: Actually no, the fluff indicates that Nekima was at least twice as tall as a human, while Lilith is basically human in appearance. Neverborn shape vary a lot...and some can change their appearance to suit their purpose (more obvious ones being Doppleganger, Graves and Tannen). @ Laocorne: Sad that it turns out this way.

Indeed that's Nekima, everything fits the description, even the location where the fight takes place (outside Latigo). The "more than twice as tall as a human" also fit the old model correctly. From a writing perspective it was logical not to name her, since the protagonists of the story (Sonia's crew) visibly had no idea who she was, and this helped make sure that Nephilim were portrayed as alien as possible from the reader's point of view.

I don't have my books right now but i do remember a line where it pretty much says that, i'll get back to you later today. Edit: pm sent, apparently my memory is playing tricks and i can only find indirect text.

( Edit: this appears to be speculation by my own brain, even though imho, it's a valid proposition ) Lilith prefers to look human for her own reason (manipulation, cunning, etc.), and she's the complete opposite of Nekima. Who knows what's Lilith's true form after all? But Nekima, who hates humans with a rage-filled bloodlust, certainly is going to use her most destructive form (or at least one that embodies her state of mind). I personally find the new model far too small to emulate what the stories tell of the character, wasn't she was said to be the largest nephilim in one of them? but yeah i can still use the old model so there's an option. That said if they ever release a nightmare version of her, it'll be an instant buy.

Gees, when compared on the pics...she really is on Barbaros's scale . Blah...now that's a serious disappointment. Of all the things i expected from the model in M2E, that never came to mind. The same model, twice the bulk/size, would have been perfect. So alt Barbaros it is. I'm going to hope for a huge Nightmare edition next year.

My order is on the mail and it'll take a while...but if no one did post pics once it arrives, i will.

Weird enough i had fun building the old one

Argh...damn it, why did it have to be so small . Compared to the new ice golem, and alot of the "old big guys", good lord....i sort of expected she'd be the same size as the old first edition model at least. It may not be a manufacturer mistake...but it does look quite strange on the pricing/size.

The Mature is very good with Nekima, imho i've been pleased each game i got him. Contrary to Nekima, the Mature is reliable to do his job without spending a river of cards or soulstones. His speed and attack are great, and his trigger can seriously thwart the plans of your opponent if it occurs at the right time. He also has a defensive (0) in case he is bogged down by fodder. Combining Lilith, a Mature and Nekima in many games proved to be a great "heavy-lifting combo". Mature on one side, Nekima on the other, Lilith going where she needs to. I don't have game experience with Killjoy sadly, but on paper he's probably able to take on Nekima and either cripple her or win the duel. That said, i don't have my cards atm, but don't you need something to die for him to appear in the first place? If that's the case, it means he may not appear exactly where you want him. Depends if you really need something to "charge up a flank" or want a mega-beater i guess. The Mature may be more indicated to "charge down a flank" thanks to flying.

I'd say that's a typical "good day" for her when she can kill more than she is worth before she dies, but most importantly when she gets the right kill at the right time. That's why she's worth hiring...on bad days she dies too early or is bogged down by useless fodder. Combining a Mature + Nekima and Lilith provides alot of saturation at the cost of being out-activated. I've tried games with a similar list but Tots instead of Graves (fluff reasons). Worked decently enough so i like it.

About the same as most here, started with Nekima for another game...saw the setting but didn't settle on it for a while. Didn't like the look of the nephilims at first but they grew on me. Ordered the first book and my wife really digged the artwork...she wanted Raspy and the viks. This started the collection. By now we have...alot of masters and their minions from all factions except 10-Thunders.

Nekima is really good at this. In fact it's one of the main effect she has on a game. As mentionned above the Hooded Rider and Killjoy are great too. The hooded rider is different as his threat grows with the game, while Nekima is more the kind of "threat" you hold back then spend it in a frenzied oubturst. Both are high threat in their regard.

Strangely enough, if Nekima is almost a given in growth mechanic discussions/tactics, i dare say i've never actually grown a single thing in all my games with her (which is about 66% of the time). Thing just never happened. Tots are too useful for running around, so while the Youngs are ok-ish, it's not enough so that i would want to spend AP and resources into making a tot grow. During that time it could have planted scheme markers on its own and get me a VP. That, and growing a Young into a Mature may happen once in a blue moon, almost depending on my opponent making some serious mistakes to let it happen. I find that the true mother's upgrade is costly and requires too much baby sitting to plan for, leaving you with no real gain if it fails at any point of the chain. That's why i don't work to make it happen...now if it does occur one day, it'll be fun. It perhaps has to do with how you use Nekima and the other models of the crew. I use her as a brutal fighter first and foremost, so the tactical stuff is left to the small runts . Furthermore my experience is slanted a bit because i've faced a lot of blast in my game...so gathering tots near Nekima ended up badly quite a few times...so in my mind, tots need to be operating on their own, far and away from where the big guns are gonna show. Add to this that i enjoy Fears given form on Nekima...and it makes the surrounding area quite hostile to my own models. If you did have success with a "grow" list please let us know. @Ikvar: the doppleganger is an awesome asset with Nekima, as taking the initiative can be crucial in some turns. There's also the added benefit of the doppleganger mimic'ing Nekima's great attack action profile. Iggy...honestly i'd try to squeeze in a Lilitu if you could.

Zoraida can really work well with Nekima, at least it has for me when i used them together. Bring a Lilitu with the duo and procede to execute whatever gets lured close. It does tend to hog alot of resources though, as Nekima drains cards and stones no matter what she does. It makes Nekima an even greater threat than she usually is, and if killed Zoraida will loose alot of omph by the same token. If you're on a budget, try a Mature Nephilim, the "obey" action is definitely violent and it's less prone to require high cheats thanks to the on the attack and the +1 armor. That being said, don't discount Lilith for one (if not the) best match. This creates a sort of target saturation on the table, as both are very powerful melee fighters... so going after either of the two sisters makes it a catch 22 for your opponent...if one assigns too much focus on one, she's leaving the other a little too "free" for comfort. Lilith can "protect" Nekima simply by her presence on the table; the enemy will have a hard time choosing the right dose of attention. Added bonus, the two complete each other for resilience: Lilith can tackle models who attack on Df, while Nekima is better shielded from Wp aggression. Then add Lilith's forest cover and model displacement shenanigans and you can create truly horrible deaths situations for opposing models.

Indeed that (0) action choice is very important, as you need to think ahead what she'll need most during her activation. She's not like the illuminated, guild austringer, rotten Belle or other high efficiency investment, but she does have the potential to seriously impact a game. High risk, high reward. Just make sure she isn't caught within range of the models who can cripple her easily (Justice, Perdita, Killjoy, Howard, Desolation engine, Izamu,...to name a few.). The list is actually pretty long, but during a game, those models will sometimes/eventually be isolated or wounded...just enough for Nekima to come finish them. Vs shooty crews, the mimic's blessing upgrade can help protecting her a bit. Keep in mind that Nekima is both a headache for its controller and its opponent. It'll know she's not that survivable, but if it fails to finish her...she can get back in good shape, and a single "extra" activation from a well positionned Nekima can swing a fight for her crew. I think, overall, that they found a decent spot for her...a model that is used in a variety of lists, considered good, but not overpowered is what i consider a job well done on wyrd's part...and with her extreme concept it was far from an easy task.

I use counters with transluscent bases (usually purple for NB) with a base designed to fit what it should represent. In the case of trees there'll be some folliage stuff, however there won't be trees glued to the counters per see on them so that models can pass through as they should for that terrain type). For the fun of it i have "mobile" trees i can put on the counters if they're not occupied, helps to remember their effect.