Mr. Bigglesworth

Ryle shooting 16-18 times. Total 3 @ cb 5, 11-13 @ CB 7, 2 @ CB 8. Really loosely written. Lucius 0 sacs a dog for reactivate giving Ryle 3 attacks with issue command @ cb 5. Reaactivates zero gives elites +2 CB, gives Ryle 3 more attacks with issue command @ cb 7. Student activates gives Ryle fast until end of closing. Ryle activates shoots 4 times or 5 times with automatic fire @ cb 7. Hoff gains fast, reactivates self machine puppet one time for cb 8. Hoff casts reactivate on Ryle, gains fast machine puppet one time for cb 8. Reactivate Ryle shoots 4 times or 5 times with automatic fire @ cb 7. Ryle shooting 16-18 times. Total 3 @ cb 5, 11-13 @ CB 7, 2 @ CB 8. This means list at min has: Hoff Lucius 10 Student 4 Ryle 8 Dog 3 One construct to give slow to twice... My choice would be Guardian. So that is 25 ss of crew for this one turn of 16 - 18 shots, also there will be interruptions in between the shots. Of course you can add Hamelin for 1 more, making maximum of 19 shots. You will get a lot of straight flips and possible good severe flips for multiple damage flips. Not saying this is broken, but a lot of people are scared of this in theory. Take this one with a grain of salt. Also if my rules are off feel to correct, haven't really bothered to try doing this or doubled check for rulings that would change the results. This came from a discussion with a local henchman tonight.

Be there at 6. I can help with demos, I have most masters.

I would suggest viks and von. Given the large support to play melee centrifugal master like j, who is my favorite because of her abilities, viks and von will give you a similar feel. As for nasty minions, tailor is tough, misaki can have a 6" melee, von is an ss user and slow to die. Very strong defense to wo duels.

Releases are usually distributed towards end of the month. Probably need to talk to your supplier. Feb should be available, march not likely.

I love cards over dice and the soulstine mechanic. The resource balance is a very fun aspect. I love how I can spend $30-$80 to get a new crew and new playstyle, much better than trying to fill out a jeavy support slot. It usually gets cheaper as you expand. It's at the point a boxset or 2 blisters and i have a whole new workable crew. I love the combos. List building is fun and easy in the game. I like gaining grounds, but calmdown's (I sure others said it but just finished gamers lounge) declare faction -> declare master before hiring crew. The diversity of what you can face per faction, is almost to great, where you are going in blind. I like how feedback is encouraged. The playtesting is taken seriously. This is a great game that can be played competively or casual. Models are really high quality. I just want to reply to neverborn vs. Others comment. It is not, neverborn have the dreamer, which most agree is one of the best masters but is still beatable. All other factions can create some very nasty builds. This fairly balanced game overall. It just happens to be neverborn mastersand outcast masters have the most rules and there by making them a bit more complicated to play against. In all the other systems I played I hear complaints of who the opponent is (no matter the master) than who the master is. Players are becoming more infamous than masters. It's not because of some character flaw like bad smells . To me that says a lot about the game. The henchman who taught was feared not because of what played but because of how good he was.

Really? is this a joke? Objectivity exist yes if you have hard data. Where is the hard data? None provided therefore objectivity is unobtainable. You some form of measurable equation that each person could use to get the same results would prove an objective response. Again looking at calmdowns list withoit play experience I can agree with almost all but I couldn't give you a measurable reason why other than gut feel. He has also provided no other measurable standards, I dont play him, i don't think it would be easy. But it is insulting to say if don't agree your not being objective. Mere fact looking at the opposing point of views that have posted already, that should be enough proof there is error in taking his post a face value. His creditials are well known, so are nix, and some others here. Someone suggested trying to calculating the creation values, the assigned numbers that is q noble effort. Point is don't claim something with such boldness and not expect to be criticized. Im sorry if I posted something to upset enough to post something this flawed: If you think that someone isnotbeingobjective,youare wrong because the second you think then you're notbeingObjective! ***Format got list in copy. No one who has offered feedback has claimed objectivity that I noticed, and no one who flags something as "UN"-objective is assumed to being objective. Last one can be objective when they think as an individual. I'm not implying to be objective nor that my list is, I stated the flaws openly. At this point i am bowing out to become an observer.

:Rat_Worker::Rat_Exclaimation::Rat_Heart::Rat_PackRat::Rat_BloodyPaw::Rat_Question::Rat_Closed::Rat_RedPaint::Rat_Drill::Rat_Sitting::Rat_HeartRed::Rat_Super::Rat_Metal::Rat_Umbrella::Rat_Para::Rat_YouLie::Rat_Spy::Rat_Toxic: These are so cool, I was so happy to find them. I did miss the plethora of other yellow smilie heads we use to have available, though these are a good replacement. I definitely feel some Hamelin love with this.

Tier 1 Guild Tier 2 Neverborn Tier 3 Outcast Tier 4 Ressers Tier 5 Arcanist This is my objective list! No one can question the objectivity of this list. :Rat_Spy: Wait... check dictionary please replace about objective with subjective and objectivity with subjectivity. Ok now for a more serious addition. My above list I believe is more accurate and it comes from list I will share in a moment. First my masters list comes from observing the win lose ratio of masters that my meta plays. This win lose doesn't actually have any hard data is more just me recalling monthly placements in our beerlifaux (beer + Malifaux =:Rat_Heart:) event. This does not take into skill factor because unfortunately, if it did, the win lose would be skewed by a small handful of people's flavor of the week. Our skill level in our meta ranges from a rules marshal to newbs. I also take into account observations of 2 other metas I have been a part of, that have only 2 players who crossover. Each meta is fairly different and isolated. Only master not in list is Hamelin because he never really hits the table, so he would only be in list based mainly on theory and not play. A few people such as myself own him, and feelings in the metas towards him are not really favored. Henchman are not listed, since they are played more as support pieces than actual crews, but ophelia does have a nasty reputation. So that is where my SUBJECTIVE list comes from. Tier 1 Lady J, Perdita, Dreamer, Pandy Tier 2 Lilth, Zoradia, Hoff Tier 3 Sonia, McMourning, Nicodem, Collette, Viks, Levi, Marcus Tier 4 Kiari, Somer Tier 5 Seamus, Raspy, Ramos Making these kinds of Tiers is nothing more than fan boy/girl rants, there is no real hard data out there. For every meta that does keep it, there are 4 others that probably don't. Skill level is subjective, win-lose streaks are very meta related. Win-lose doesn't is not hard data it is soft and squishy, molded by some many factors. You can make clear theory arguments who is good and who is bad, and you can go off these subjective lists and go oh, a lot people put Sonia mid to top, and that is more likely going to get you closer to the truth then collecting tourney data. If you polled people to answer for each master which tier that master falls into, I would accept that as the best data you can get, and closest to objective answers as you could get(please I don't want to see 20 threads with this in mind, if you can make one giant poll that would do that, cool). Tourney data is skewed by faction representation, and flavor of the month. Giant metas like the UK have that same problem. Look at how each tourney is run, single masters is going to give different results than open faction or 3 list tourneys. UK seems to have a wide variety, but I have played each style too. Points brought up about crew selection, are really important. I don't know how you would play a game master vs. master and it be fun. Masters play with crews and they function at different levels based on the available pool, Ramos rocks with 40ss+ but struggles at less, while, Lady J and Sonia do better in smaller pools. That is a subjective answer that if pooled would likely yield a majority response. At this point I ranted a lot, so I leave you with these: :Rat_Drill: + :Robot2: + :fireball: + :Rat_Question: = ? <Hint: special forces>

This concern is only valid if strategy before faction is picked. Otherwise no advantage over single faction. If you plan to play competitively you should buy like that is your plan to, to do less is your chosen disadvantage not my chosen advantage. I buy what i like and play what I like to my own vantage. Whether that gives you an up is on me not anyone elae. More models means i chose to take advantage of what's available for you to take advantage of. Socioeconimics should be a separate discussion.

Single too hard to manage open.

This with sacrificial dogs and sarge can lay a world of pain. Not a big fan and meta tends to stomp this style. Though it is fun. Also talk about an anti pandy platform. ---------- Post added at 02:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:46 PM ---------- I have seen this before and still have a hard time with lucius and guardian with lady j. When i see this i see movement shennigans with slow armor competing. Or is the guardian for lucius and exorcist? Thanks for the post so far, more ideas please. I like to see the different styles.

I have a fun tourney I plan to attend in April and am having trouble with firming my list. It is a fixed master, henchman allowed 5 round tourney with a pool of 50ss minions. Game size ranges from 25-45. I plan to take j becuase I have the most fun with her. I have every possible model she can take at my disposal. With that in mind what would you take. I have 36ss already picked by fence sitting on last 14. I would like to see others lists without my influence. What would be your 50ss you would take and maybe some examples of the 25 and 35ss lists you woukd make fron the 50? All posts welcome. This a fun tourney so i am not looking for uber competitive.

Surprise in box is slow and best for claim jump like activities. Also, the marshal that carries the package should get fast the following turn to make up for lost ground. Also Perdita is my master of choice when doibg this because obey also can help with speed lost, however, I wouldn't take student and i lose the melee expert. Student is pretty key for most guild shennigans. The guild has some best damage lines so that extra ap to do one more strike is where we can get real nasty. For example, One more so for Nino can mean 2-3 more shots.

The austringer can hide way in the back, he doesn't need to be up he can be in back touching the board edge, this doesn't fully protect him, but it should help.

With crews like collette and dreamer this idea fails since they have better move shennigans. Also the big return for this idea is she is loaded with ap and can kill multiple targets if oppenent is bunched up. To make this effective it is knowing when to do it in a turn. So you need activations to burn so you can pull this off. Dogs come in handy for this. Your opponent has to have moved a target up you want. So keep in mind it is easy to bate a lady j player doing this trick. I will gladly sacrifice Sam for j and if you ignore my offer you will feel it next turn. The judge suggestion can be done with almost any of the 7-8ss minions we have. Judge is one of my favorites for it, but executione sans drill, or sam sans melee expert. This is also a good primer before you reinforce lady j. Last point to lucius slingshot is placibg him in cover, he is almost impossible to threaten while he is on cover with ranged attacks.

Todd brings up a good point of human psychology. Negative experience is far easier to remember than positive, and participants are more likely to express negative over positive. This is basic customer service knowledge. This basic theory is why negative expression is more commonly reiterated. Though we see far more positive posts, it is the negative that catch the eye. If you are like me you before buying something on amazon, you will look at a small handful of 5 review comments, but you will comb through the 1-3s more closely. This is the basic fear of all gamers who want to expand, unfortunately this is a very expensive hobby, even cheap ones like malifaux and mercs. Hatchet states this well. When competing with the top 3 game companies out there, it is extremely intimidating to jump into. Also for those of the other 2 companies balance was a known issue for when they were a new player, but it is not easy to see this and want to go through the losing honeymoon phase most people face. Which is exactly what Rancor points out that honeymoon phase we all face when starting with an established game. This game is pretty complex and for most gamers it will take a couple of games to get warmed up and be competitive. Lets quantify with "guesstamtions," how long it takes to get proficient. We all know starting a new game usually means we take double the time veterans take to play (90 min tourney rounds, casual games I see most posts indicating 2 hours). That is about 3-4 hours per game (rounding to 3). Now by warmahordes standards I see the most common posts indicating it takes 25-50 games to become proficient. I don't think Malifaux is that complex, so lets say 25 on the long end. First 10 games taking 3 hours to get the rules down. The other 15 taking 2 hours at a good friendly pace. That is roughly 60 hours. Most game nights I go to, you get enough time for 1 3 hour game or 2 2 hour games a night. That is about 17 game nights. Most players I know go to a game night any where from 1-4 times a month (I'm lucky to get more than 1 now). That is 4 months to about a year and a half to get proficient. **** DISCLAIMER: Now this was me just pulling numbers out my #2 hole. Anyone who needs to invest even 4 months of time into something is really making a commitment (it took me only a month of dating before I moved in with my wife). Side not I do think warmahordes is more complex, because, each caster is so extremely different and it is hard to remember each casters the 5 step combo she needs to get a caster kill. This game as Rancor points out is more complex for most veteran gamers because it revolves around vp not killing. Keep in mind there are more than the "broken" barrier you are trying to break down when introducing this game to new gamers. There is also the learning curve (or time frame) expected of them to get proficient at a new game. That learning curve to me is the hardest part to overcome, and is usually guised by the "broken" statement. Telling some it will take 25 games to find out how balanced this game is, is asking a lot of a person.

Student is prefrence for her sling shot, but i love it usually means i can net a master kill or two minion kills. List breakdown, stalkers are great, but one should be fine, spend the other 4 on a guardsman. Also 4 dogs always felt overkill for me I settle for a pair and run another Austringer in its place.

Reading sooey, since it is a pulse if they pass the resist duel they push towards Somer regardless of los, as long as all other pulse rulea are met. Those that fail sooey, I guess without los the charge would fail like normal and no movement since spell doesn't say ignore los. But I could see it being ruled the other way. Since bloodhound doesnt ignore los i think closest will be determined by los. Otherwise if no straightline. Like any other charge move until you can't get any closer.

Well the golden rule in the book is flip for any dispute, since there is no official rule in the book your next flip should determine who flips next. Crouching moose's idea is a fair house rule. The book leaves it open to interpretation on how you should treat when to pick for joker flips.

I totally disagree and reason why is ss allows your master to dictate the flow, but your master is of a crew. The crew make up helps determine the flow. Each master will utilize their stones differently. For example lady j is going to use them defensively more than Sonia using them offensively. Pandora is going to use them for movement shennigans, and zoradia I find doesn't need that many since she starts with 5 and is hard to target. Strategy also dictates how many stones you need. Contain power im usualky maxed on all masters, while reconnotier I feel it out, often going for fewer. There are a few masters I take 7-8 everytime, but Sonia is not one.

@ manlapas. You make valid points but you are using more theory. He is not your vanguard and his crew can be tough up front. Also his crew excels at range, and deals with mel fairly well. Think of it this way decent shooting means non ranged crews get pegged more and have to waste resources to engage. Cb 6 melee doesn't mean use the for melee. His neg flip great but do focus striked or channel and it means nothing. He has a low wound line and a low cache for slow to die heals. Def 6 means turtle and susceptible to blast. Cb 6 with a crap melee weapon, great def trigger, but i dont feel his ap is worth him engaging first. Terrifying is ok, only works on maybe 50% of models and is a simple duel. Helpful but not reliable.

Dogs are great gor extra activations in a Lucius lead crew, but in a henchman position his cost makes so you hit average with dogs. Lucius does have a zone of control he likes his crew ib, but doesnt mean they cant operate out it independently. Also lucius's zone does require him to activate early in the turn to give buffs. Papa middle with lucius doesn't work against a crafty opponent. The reason it works with ortegas is obeys and companion. An activation before boom allows your opponent to bait and switch on you. Once your opponent sees it they should adapt to it.

So welcome. Ok lucius is good but is better support than frontline. Perdita and lucius don't mesh as well as any of the other three masters. Your example of papa and reinforcments is a bad strategy. Why? Can't do it in one activation, allowing for your opponent to react. Perdita is great stand alone but does better with family for possible companion shennigans. Lucius does gteat full guardsman. Lady j and sonia have less crew synergy and so work great with guardsman crews. Biggest reason is Perdita has a low cache, and so 10 point support model is frankly too much, or a way i look at 12 for her compared to 10 for Sonia and lady j. Austringers are great and are guardsman so you can take in lucius lead crew.

Also fast doesn't always have to be applied to kaeris, while essence is likely only linked to het.

This one I'm not sure of, where it might be the example, because you are not affected by slow the first time you receive it, if you already have fast. It is just canceling. I agree immunity is immune from effects and general application, but the way slow and fast work, there might be an exception. Slow and fast are a bit confusing to me especially after the alps and immune to slow thread.