Csonti

This is exactly the same what I have come up with as a possible fix. Simply there is no need for this kind of loopholes in the game. I wonder why didn't they fix that ages ago...

Thanks for your laughing answer but I fear you have completely misunderstood the issue. (Playing with 3 Neverborn masters I can imagine their strengths.) Many of the posters here suggest that Gremlins are the best of the best. Broken, ubercompetitive, whatever. I can even accept that but without enough experience I have doubts and so I asked a simple question aimed to top quality Gremlin players. How do you deal with LCB that drops into your DZ in turn 1 and eats the most important minion faces? The answer was quite generic and that's why I asked for details. Point a) was there to understand that coming up with a good defence against the Dreamer couldn't be made with a list that doesn't or hardly work against other Neverborn crews. Since you don't know whether your opponent brings Lilith, Pandy or the Dreamer, you would be in a serious disadvantage in a tournament if you bring a wrong counter list. And that is not what I call competitive play. For point : besides that I wasn't even talking about Somer... How many Gremlins do you bring to ensure this? How does your list look like? Which models are safe from LCB in your setup? Please note that in this case you can't rely on summoned models since LCB could win the initiative and be in your DZ during the first activation chain and ruin your day badly.

Would you be so kind and be a bit more specific? Say you are facing the Neverborn faction in a 30 SS game. What is the list you bring that a) competitive against every possible Neverborn Master/Henchman and can block LCB out the way you suggest. Please nominate your key models that must be screened/blocked with the rest of the crew. I'm looking forward your answer! Thanks in advance!

I just wonder how do you defend vs LCB that drops into your DZ in turn 1, kills lets say the two most important support minions and goes back to the other end of the table?

I was just naive and hoped that they left this restriction out accidentally. On the other hand Hamelin really needs this boost to be at least slightly competitive. (Disclaimer: the last sentence may contain traces of irony.)

In the description of Obey it is clearly stated that you can't kill or sacrifice the controlled model. Obedience's effect works similar to Obey but there is no such restriction in that spell's description. So it looks like Hamelin can cast Obedience on Molly and force her to cast The Philosophy of Uncertainty and be sacrificed in the process. Am I right? (The issue is the same when he uses Pipes and inflicts severe damage on Molly.)

You wording is more precise but we are talking about the same thing. In the example of the original post the entire effect is: Kirai suffers some points of damage. And that effect (suffering damage) can be transfered to a Seishin.

I think you misunderstand to point of this thread. It's not about the timing of pulse (or blast) damage. It is simultaneous but that in itself will not answer anything here. The difference between the linked and this thread is huge. The Seishin's ability kicks in when Kiari would suffer damage while Voracious Rat's activates when the model or the rats around are killed. A very different scenario. And this is just what I was talking about. While I'm glad that Kel informed us about how RAI this works, it is still unclear to me what is the logic behind the answer ruleswise.

I have searched for this before puting up a new thread. The best call was this thread where you also happen to mention that "this hase been ruled before" but sadly also without a link. The last post there contains a quote from Ratty's more than one year old post. The problem is that it covers a different scenario with blasts and stuff (and Ratty was not an RM at that time anyway). So indeed I would need your charitability and search-fu to show me the thread where the mentioned official ruling lies. Thx!

Yeah, that was one of the interpretations. The other way of thinking: you suffer damage before you die, Kirai dumps off damage when she would suffer the effect, at this time the Seishin couldn't be killed since it is just getting its share of damage just like Kirai. Reading the rules I can't fully support either of these.

Last night this situation arrised: Pere cast Oopsie and Kirai and some Seishin was in range of the pulse. All of the models suffered enough damage to get killed. Question: can Kirai use Spirit Sheath to dump-off the damage to a Seishin?

No. Obey is quite different (once per activation vs once per turn). But I already mentioned this in the original post. And to be precise: Obey can be cast multiple times by a single model in a turn, you just need to Reactivate it. Btw time to scatter some cookies around this thread. RM's are more likely to show up in that way...

I can see your point (and even support that mechanism) but to me the conclusion is quite the opposite: there is nothing in the rules (as far as I know) that explains the different version of the same spell issue. And "once per turn" is just that: you can NOT cast it again in the same turn. No is stronger than yes and cards override normal rules. So yes, an RM confirmation would be helpful. (This whole thing reminds me the Ronin issue. Most of the people argued that you can't sacrifice an enemy Ronin to make a new Victoria despite the fact that the description did not prohibit that. And then the RM's said: yes, you can sacrifice an enemy model.)

Maybe I was not clear enough: according to the wording you can not use it more than once in a turn. And I just wonder what the intent is regarding this. (I edited the OP to make it more clear.) Molly of course can copy the spell (and even use it) but the description, as it stands now, prohibits multiple casting by different models.

Mortimer's Exhume spell says it can be cast once per turn - period. Question is: can Molly (or her totem) cast this if she copies the spell from Mortimer but Mortimer already cast it in the same turn? Obviously this is a very different wording than once per activation (Obey) or once per crew per turn (Ice Pillars). Word by word it would imply that only one model can cast this per turn (including both players!) but I can imagine that the intent is different.

I don't know whether it means anything but the clarification page on malifaux.com got an update on last Friday and the All Done trigger remained the same...

I think some Guild player corrupted the reprint's text in order to deal with Nytmare at last. (BTW I'm a big fan of the damaging requisite.)

So they changed the wording in the RM. Now that resolves the issue. I quoted the skill's description from a Quick Reference PDF which was not corrected so it seems. Sorry for the confusion. In this case Sue's ability couldn't be saved by Hard to Kill at all.

I was referring to the previous post. Hard to Kill reads: While this model has 2 or more Wd remaining when it suffers damage, it can only be reduced to 1 Wd by a single damage source. Here the word damage is not the same as the Malifaux game term Damage (Dg). You can suffer damage from sources that inflict either Damage (Dg) or Wound (Wd). And therefore Sue's ability could work when he is down to 2 Wd's. Hope that helps.

IMO the rulebook's term of Damage (Dg) is not the same as the standard English word: damage used in the book (or in the description of skills) many times. A damage source could be anything that causes Damage (Dg) or Wound (Wd). So in this case the answer is a big yes, Hard to Kill would save him. Of course I'm not a marshal so wait for official statement.

Patience guys! Only 4 months has passed since the OP's post... :iam:

This was asked several times but was never answered by a marshal. So I'm also eager to get an official answer.

I wanted to purchase the Pigapult but after seeing its price tag I changed my mind. IMHO the price is a bit off compared to other Wyrd models (or some other manufacturers' same sized products). At least it was high enough for me to resist the temptation of buying. (Just wanted to give a costumer feedback.)

:tj:

McM hiring Von Schill and trying to summon a Rogue Necromancy...