katadder

fair enough, not meaning to be argumentative but like to get clear explanations sometimes, especially so I am not cheating people I explode in the face of until this thread have not ever really seen great explanations on the oft mentioned step 5. people just tend to say step 5 and leave it at that.

perhaps the example in the book is poorly written then as damage should have been included in it. but it takes us back to the original post then. mei feng does damage. then pushes into base contact. basic english with full stops makes these 2 separate parts of the action. however if the damage is done 1st then it dies before she pushes in even though its not a trigger as the damage is done before the push and therefore so is the dying.

still disagree, helps out my raspy crew alot but doesnt mean I have to agree with it. cant die without suffering damage and triggering after damage which are both after damage effects. but who am I to argue with the FAQ amusingly does mean mei feng and misaki are both more neutered against my frozen heart booby trapped models

but damage is not a duel, step 5 of duels is dealing with the success of duels. damage is the effect of a duel not the success or lack thereof for said duel. in this case unfortunately the FAQ says I am wrong but by reading of the rules I dont see how damaging is in step 5 as it is not part of the duel, just a result of it as per triggers which by the general timing box on page 46 triggers happen 1st.

step 5 is determine success, doesnt say it explodes in step 5 as far as I can see. step 4 on after damaging says these effects are resolved before the damaged model is removed if killed by damage. thats the thing, it doesnt say anywhere which step things die and dying is surely also after step 5 by the step by step example. the example in the book has seamus hitting a freikorpsman, which results in a damage flip and points you to page 46. on page 46 general timing box - most abilities grant a passive effect, some of which have their effect when a model suffers damage or is killed. whenever any ability happens at the same time as any triggers the triggers are resolved first. so by that wording, misaki can next target before explosive demise. step 5 is determine success of the duel, damage is not the success of the duel, its a result of the duel so damaging and triggers are after step 5. you also cannot die before being damaged so dying (and any associated results) is also after damaging, and as triggers happen 1st misaki can next target before something with explosive demise explodes

can someone point me where these steps are please? as I see the general timing box on page 46 which has 4 steps and by this is would be misaki escapes but mei feng goes in. some of these timing things are a bit confusing as I would have thought the other way round, but now we have both ways resulting in dying to gamin never mind, finally found it, although reading that misaki would get to do her push before explosive demise as the acting model (by damaging) by box on page 46

but it is after damaging. so: target suffers .... damage. Then, this model pushes directly into base contact with the target, there is a full stop between them. misakis may be a trigger but its still after damaging trigger

If mei feng kills an ice gamin with jackhammer kick does he explode before she pushes in to base contact? assuming it does as misaki cannot push away with next target before explosion and this is basically the other way round but would like confirmation, or to be proven wrong

you could probably make a good case for lots of the masters though if you really wanted to, raspy, pandora, perdita, hoffman, collodi, lilith etc etc the list goes on

all depends what you want to do I guess. I have seen hamlin use pipes to send ama no zako all the way across the board then drop oathkeeper to move further and deliver a message, 3pts 1st turn straight away. have also seen obeys and pipes etc to move people away from protect territory markers, or get your enemys to pick up their own markers etc at the end of a game. this can end up winning as many if not more games than prompt. its all balanced in the end I guess, prompt is useful but depends how you use it

wait until ulix summons 3 warpigs in 3 turns, or you face somers gremlin factory. they seem to have ways to get plenty of warpigs, bayou gremlins, piglets or even stuffed piglets to outsummon the ressers, especially if Som'er goes first (as is likely due to trixeibelle) then once hes done his summoning discards both peoples hands. would like to see nico summoning by top decking.

also dont rely on blasts as merris just negates all those when they are sitting in a nice block. I do tend to think gremlins out guild the guild, and also on a side note out summon the ressers.

this the next sanctuary one or is there any others in july/august? Am sure I will be there anyway

I often take Seize the day on other masters but dont feel ironsides needs it as much. which is why I am a little unsure what to finish off with. do like the idea of stopping RJs, but its only when flipped, not when cheated. if it was when cheated as well that would be awesome.

Which upgrades are people thinking for ironsides? I will pretty much always take challenge the crowd and warding runes, but then its between iron determination and frontline leadership. iron determinations, the RJ is extrememly situational as its only if a RJ is flipped against her on damage, how often does that happen, not very. stand up stand tall part could be good if I ever got more than 3 adrenaline on her. frontline leadership means more chance of adrenaline, especially against shooty crews and has a short range 0 in there too to make people attack ironsides. so what are peoples thoughts?

just picked up mei feng myself but have yet to run her. considering going with kang, 2 rail workers, 2 metal gamin and either a rail golem or joss. is the totem worth it though?

think it would have been useful if she had a built in suit for gaining adrenaline on her punches (the warm up one i think). without that she really struggles. most adrenaline I have had in a turn was 3

would work well against some lists, not so well against others. just one of those random lists I am considering (like the 12 gamin list for my arcanists)

I often use disguise and it has saved misaki on more than one occasion. for a bit of fun I am going to take a no charge crew with her one time Misaki -disguise -survivalist rusty alyce -from the aether -desolate soul 3 x oiran 3 x ronin may swap one of those (plus alyce upgrades) for hans

used her quite alot myself for the denial of charges and 3 min damage. I also put smoke grenades on her to make her more survivable at range. last night was most useful as up against tara her benefits to WP, immunity to horror duels and to duels with masters all game into use. she does have alot of use, especially against melee crews and anything that requires alot of WP duels.

well you could take cold nights over seize the day if you want but I do like my bearskin armour and the chance to hit a master for 9 damage (if carrying 3 upgrades). even just the base shatter is nice for lining up a wendigo feast using a low crow from your hand. I do tend to use my 1 actions doing damage rather than blocking LOS i guess though

well seize the day is 1 point so can only take one anyway. and yes i could buy 1 leaving me with a base pool of 3 but I find 4 is the minimum I am happy running with

Nope. No spare points

my standard 50pts for raspy that has done me well in tourneys is: Rasputina (SS pool of 4) -armour of december -child of december -seize the day Wendigo Snow Storm Ice Golem 2 x December Acolytes 2 x Ice Gamin the list has some maneuverability, plety of ranged hitting power and some up close. If I get overpower its all good, usually thats done with cheated cards rather than soulstones though unless I really need it for a big target. armour of december is always useful for moving away from those melee beasts and child of december gives you a useful ranged 0 (as freeze over is easy) that also protects you from your guys blowing up in your face

i only have a 7 model count as well (occasionally 8) but basically ironsides (who takes warding runes +2 specific upgrades), joss with warding runes, johan, 3 mages and that leaves me 11pts could be the captain, could be mouse and something for 7pts. not sure how to finish that off yet. although at some point I will run the captain, joss and taelor in the same list for hammer time