Math Mathonwy

That Nicodem comparison is so random. Fetid didn't say that Dreamer is the toughest (=hardest to kill, that is) Master out there, just that he is very tough and so the claims of "glass cannon" are silly. Maybe Nico is tougher - so what? (Also, it's not a "Daydream shield", it's "Nightmare shield" - putting a Stitched next to a Dreamer (even without the fog), makes him completely impervious to attacks from a certain angle.)

Necrotic Machine is more expensive than Kaeris? Just how big is it?? From the stats I thought it was sorta small...

Confrontation Creberos of Acheron:

Sonnia is also crazy good against Kirai (all that magical damage makes spirits feel really squishy), who is a very good choice for some strategies for Ressers.

This is ridiculously faulty logic. If Nekima's cost was 1SS and she was non-unique, would you have fun playing against a list of 35 Nekimas? It would be beatable (if the starts aligned just right), but probably not very fun. Except that, by your logic, it would be fun because beating people's lists is fun! Some people's threshold of fun in beating a tough list is lower than some other people's. News at eleven. This really, really shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.

Colette has a special rule that allows her to hire M&SU Members from any faction at no extra cost thus nullifying the merc cost.

Aye, it was meant as good-natured ribbing (as you took it). The other most important thing to consider is that Dreamer has completely insane movement allowing him to appear anywhere and he transports his whole crew with him. The whole idea is so outrageous that I'm flabbergasted that this was combined with crazy melee ability and strong support abilities on the same Master, but there you go. But I digress. The thing to take home from here is that Dreamer can put any of his models anywhere he likes. They effectively have almost infinite movement for the whole crew (some limitations, but it is easier to grasp this way). So yeah, warding off the battlefield to make sure that Nightmare appearance is on your terms is possible, but it takes luck in the terrain department, luck in the strategy department, luck in crew selection and luck with initiative. Possible, but extremely difficult and if one of those lucks fails to pan out, you're at an extremely severe disadvantage and if two fail, you lose unless your opponent is a moron (compared to being, if all of that luck holds out, on somewhat even terms). I'm not sure that I like giving an opponent that big of a bonus without having a say on the matter. The results of the "banned"-thread were astounding and eye-opening. Many, many groups reported that they look down on players who use the Dreamer and the Alp bomb, specifically and shun them out of games eventually. That's rather extreme, I think, but OTOH my usual Dreamer opponent was sorta disgusted at the power level of Alps himself, so I guess I shouldn't be too surprised. But the fact that this is happening in so many places...

Pandora is an integral part of the FILTH list.

I feel that the advice against the Dreamer has taken a decidedly spiritual turn. "You need to believe in yourself, make no mistakes while messing with your opponent's head to cause him to make mistakes and then exploit that mistake, whatever it may be, to completely dominate the whole game. It's just a matter of pressure and dominance and it's impossible to explain - a mystical enlightenment available only to a chosen few. But the Dreamer is very balanced, honest! Playing him makes you susceptible to these headgames even if you're a good player while granting the opponent immunity to them - Wyrd made the mini out of special moon metal that vibrates into your brain."

Ah, OK, these words are small enough Yeah, I kinda have always played that way (we have a couple of "normal" table setups, the city and a dungeon/mine) and yeah, it's a good idea to vary the terrain. Agreed.

Why would Johan cost only 5? AFAIK he costs 5 only for Colette. Also, why no love for the Large Steampunk Arachnid? It's a very solid model for its cost and has uses beyond Ramos scrapping it for counters first turn. I was hoping to go for the following: Arcanists Crew - 35 - Scrap Kaeris -- 5 Cache Fire Gamin [4ss] Fire Gamin [4ss] Fire Gamin [4ss] Gunsmith [6ss] Gunsmith [6ss] Large Steampunk Arachnid [5ss] Renegade Steamfitter Johan [6ss]

My pal in organizing tournaments and the guy I've played Malifaux with the most has had a Terralinx (precursor of Terraclips that makes similar kinds of boards but takes a crazy amount of work) board for a while now, so I have experience of city boards. This isn't idle speculation. I've faced Kirai on such a board and the effect is hugely in favour of Kirai no matter how you slice it, IME. You cite the inability to charge through a wall as a con, while in reality the ability to walk through the wall is a huge plus. I don't know how much experience you've had on city tables, but I've played on them and my experiences speak very different from yours.

I thought that my description of Meliador + SoL was adequate. You had a model standing, doing nothing but casting Storm of Light and every enemy model dies if you don't roll exceedingly abysmally the whole game. There was nothing they could do. It was an unfortunate interplay of different mechanics that made the combo completely insanely powerful with no counters other than bad luck on Meliador player's part. But if these aren't obvious enough, let's take a ridiculous example which should make things crystal clear. If Nekima was non-unique and costed 1SS, the game would be insanely imbalanced. A Lilith crew with 35 Nekimas would rule the tournaments. Eliminating that imbalance would surely make the game better and saying that it shouldn't be done since people would find another broken combo (say, Alp bomb) is crazy. Now, naturally the game isn't imbalanced that severely, but I made the example purposefully ridiculous so as to make sure that no one would address my position through it. But the exact example are not my point. They are there to illustrate my point, which is that imbalance isn't a magical status quo that can't be lowered. This kind of view sorta invalidates all the balancing that Wyrd has done and is, IMO, a bit insulting towards them and their rules makers and playtesters. This is probably the weakest defense for retaining the status quo I've seen. "People whine no matter what so nothing should even be done. Zimbabwe or Canada, no matter." Edit: upon review, that sounded harsher than I meant. I respect you and your opinions. I just here disagree with them strongly, but I still think that you're all sorts of awesome

Funnily enough, I would argue that the more extreme the terrain, the more the Dreamer likes it. Daydreams float and Dreamer is a Spirit. They summon their whole crew freely within a set distance, so they are much more agile and able to react to the opponent's moves in dense terrain. So in effect it seems that you're boosting the already hugely powerful crews like Dreamer, Showgirls and Kirai. Yeah, base tricks (one of my regular opponents is the king of base tricks doing stuff that seems completely impossible with clever micro management, so I have had to come to know that style of play though I'm nowhere close to his skill) can hamper LCB and so on, but that knife cuts both ways and Dreamer has way more ability to take advantage of those tactics.

That's a very defeatist attitude, though. Even if we accept that minis games, by their very nature, contain imbalance (and I'm fully willing to accept that, mind) it doesn't follow that they all contain the same amount of imbalance or that by fixing imbalance, the level of imbalance in a game doesn't change. To take a blatant example, consider Meliador + Storm of Light in Confrontation 2nd edition. There was a combo that let you just sit on a rock and everything died if you managed to roll even semi-well. It was hideously powerful and utterly boring and most likely to worst imbalance I've seen in a minis game. Fixing it, made Confrontation 2nd a lot better game and a lot more balanced game, even though there naturally remained all sorts of questionable stuff, still. So yeah, fixing the Dreamer down a notch may mean that there rises another Master that people think of as the best, but they will be best by a smaller margin than Dreamer is currently (not wishing to debate the exact case of the Dreamer here, just taking it as an example of an imbalance that is relatively widely accepted as needing some looking into). Now, how to fix is of course tricky, so Wyrd taking their time is all fine and dandy in my book, since if they change something, changing it back and forth is very undesireable so getting it right the first time would be awesome.

Aye, the dynamic is completely different in brawls which is why I tend to default to advice for 35SS games unless something else is mentioned.

Hookers, that sounds really, really cool! :thumb:

How long were the time limits, btw? I think that in a three-game tournie, the rounds could be 120 minutes long (well, maybe 110 with 10 minutes between rounds) so as to ensure that people finish the games. The game isn't balanced for three turns games, IMO.

Maelstrom has listed 15th Sep and they seem to be a bit slow on stuff like this, so I'd expect it on 15th at the latest.

Eh, if your opponent lets Hopkins shoot Seamus dead, then your opponent isn't very good. Hopkins is such a huge threat that your opponent should make it a top priority to deal with him and Seamus has ample tools at his disposal to do just that (Lure, Necropunks, Night Terrors, Molly). Of course, while he is dealing with Hopkins, the rest of your crew should perform your strategies and schemes and thus win the game.

Malifaux is, by far, the most expensive skirmish minis game I've seen. Alkemy, Hell Dorado, Eden, Freebooter's Fate, Infinity, Nemesis and so on and so forth allow for a very efficient tournie force for far less investment. Minis games are not just GW and PP you know.

How did the tournie go? Drive carefully, be safe!

3" melee range. You'd need a lot of Necropunks to cover McMourning. Remember that LCB's base size is 50mm (Frightening dream isn't completely within 6" but within 6" , right? Don't have the book here) Again, isn't this putting Dreamer into BtB with LCB, so 30mm extra movement? And 50mm again So, in total it's 130mm extra, so a bit over 5 inches. Or did I miss something?