Ramos or Hoffman

[graeme27uk]

How do the two compare? Both can use constructs which look good.

What are the pro's / con's of each? Which do you prefer and why?

[notmikehill]

Both masters play a support role with buffing themselves and other constructs in play. Ramos can summon Steampunk arachnids into play and they can form into a larger arachnid swarm. Hoffman can borrow abilities as well as take them away from his constructs. Making the Peacekeeper more viable without any of it's negative abilities.

[Iron Skies]

Will have a full reply in the next couple of days regarding Hoffman but in summary.

Situational booster to the constructs is the way I have been playing him. Getting picked up by different constructs as they move into position for him to machine puppet.

Spells good for objective grabbing (overide edict) or if surrounded/near spirits (open circuit) find I don't use combat mechanic that much and just blow up scrap counters instead.

[micahwc]

Hoffman is much more mobile, and seems generally more melee oriented than ramos

[Guy in Suit]

Just get both - you eventually will anyway - the inevitability of Malifaux lol.

[CannonFodder]

Ramos primarily uses arachnid swarms, but only Needs 2 swarms to max out his benefits(Assuming no avatar). He also has access to the Corephee Duet. If using his avatar you will also want to look at the Large Steam punk arachnids (not they are MSU Assets). if you wan the avatar you will want to use only constructs, and you have the option of the Fire gamin also. Ice gamin just not worth it.

Hoffman uses his crew the most of the time, has access to the Watcher that Ramos does not have, not sure if the guardian is usable by ramos, but I think its guild only. Using Arcanist constructs (usually just arachnids) gets expensive. Hoffman like diverse models to be able to copy more abilities. I don't think he uses any special forces normally, but is limited to 2 large steampunk arachnids and won't be able mix them and Rile. I would need to review the avatar before I can comment on it.

Short version: Without avatars I think Hoffman is more mobile than Ramos, and will be better for more schemes, but I know the Ramos avatar really buffs your entire crew. I don't recall the details of the hoffman avatar, but I don't recall be impressed with it. If starting to buy constructs, I'd go with the following. Ramos BLISTER (Not box), Ramos Avatar (it comes with 1 swarm), blister of swarm, Electrical creation, 2 Large Steam punk arachnids, Mobile toolskit. Thats 32 SS, and if you them later pick up Hoffman box, you get more option. I find the Steamborg executioner a little big, and if you buy the Ramos box & avatar you get too many warms (assuming you magnetize)

[Iron Skies]

Ok, got some time to give a run-down on the Hoff. I'll try and answer this how you have set out your questions however as I do not play Ramos and my only experience with him comes from playing against Mythicfox and his Ramos crew alot of my views come from playing against him.

1. How do they both compare.

Both of them on their own have very low mobility however Hoffman can hitch a ride on any construct that is height 2 so long as they start in base contact. This does give Hoffman a mobility advantage but it is very easy to overextend with a Hoffman crew and end up with no master.

Ramos himself has a ranged offensive spell that will be his primary damage output and does mean that if he is on his own he won't be all that helpless (Armour 2 does help as well!)

Hoffman does not have any ranged offensive spells and his primary damage output comes from machine puppeting friendly constructs to attack. Without a construct near him to pick him up/machine puppet Hoffman is very easy to kill.

2. Pros/Cons.

Both.

Pros : Very good at supporting their constructs either by healing/defence buffing (in the case of Ramos) or removing any bad abilities that they may have (Hoffman with maintain machines)

Cons : Slow, Wk3 and both having low defence

Hoffman.

Pros : Can hitch a ride with any Ht2 construct and then use machine puppet to make them engage.

Can assimilate any LISTED ability on a friendly construct.

The more friendly constructs that are close to him the higher his cast becomes.

Gets rid of bad abilities with maintain machines.

Machine puppet! CB6:rams with critical strike on melee or ranged attack from a construct

Depending on the constructs taken can either make good ones better or steal their abilities and make himself incredably powerful.

Dampening, no blasts, aura's or pulses within 3" of him unless it's his activation

Can gain fast but makes a construct slow.

Cons : VERY crew dependant. If he is ever cought on his own he's dead.

Protected by machines - you can have assimilated armour 6 bazillion that you have just made however if he gets hit you HAVE to take the basic armour of a friendly construct within 3" (Which will usually be 1 or 2)

Close in spell power, longest range spell being combat mechanic (Heal)

No ability to make new constructs

Ramos.

Pros : Armour 2!

One of the highest casts in the game

Counterspell, can stop a spell by ditching cards.

Casting expert. Extra cast action

Can gain scrap as a 2 action.

Able to make spiders and electical creations on the same turn.

Offensive spell that ignores armour

Pneumatic grip

Cons : VERY low DF and walk.

Despite having a high cast his summoning spells need at least a 7tomes to work.

No movement tricks without SnowStorm

Again, crew dependant but can hold his own a little

3. Preferred

While I have the Ramos box he's still unassembled. Prefer Hoffman

[Dead Dingo]

After reading your thread I was thinking of going with the Hoff as my first ...

Would you say he is a good for a noob to learn with?

[SportsComedian]

I think Ramos is easier for a noob. Hoffman has a lot of using other people's abilities, which can take time to figure out the good synergies. But I started with him, and he's a fun time. I did branch out to Ramos shortly after. He's more a backline caster, while Hoffman likes to ride a clump or robots into battle.

[Dead Dingo]

Thanks for the input.

If I go with Ramos and want to build on the box set, who should I take next?

My LGS has meetings every Wednesday and most play box set plus, or a mixed crew of box set and others.

DD.

[CRC]

Mobile Toolkit. It's the best upgrade you can get for him.

After that, I would choose between Mechanical Rider and Kaeris. The former brings a strong mobile unit. The latter brings range strikes.

You could also consider Coryphées for your mobile option, but they're more expensive and less beaty. They're better for Colette.

Large Steampunk Arachnids are a solid melee beater, but they don't bring much your crew doesn't already have, except that you can mulch them for scrap so Ramos doesn't have to Salvage Under Fire.

Soulstone Miners have some shenanigans you can play, but those work better for other masters, and you have to beware the cuddle that lurks just over the horizon.

[puggimer]

The two things that I feel are required for Ramos after the box set are the Mobile Toolkit and an Electrical Creation. In fact I find it a shame that the EC is not included in the box, as it is one of his base spells.