Question on 'target' and 'killed' wordings

[Aegnor]

I'm pretty sure to have the answer but i want confirmation.

How interact abilities like 'challenge' (barbaros, mancha roja) or 'hostile environment'(sparks) with abilities/attack that doesn't have the exact 'target' wording. For example 'feed the piggies : up to 4 friendly gremlins/pigs can make a 1/2/3 healing flip' or scion of the void's hollowing : 'select a friendly buried' or any other abilities with words like select,choose or no specific word at all. My mtg background tells me to be very literal and say that if it doesn't say target then you can do it but i don't know if malifaux is as 'wording specific' as Mtg.

Same kind of question for 'killed'. Especially for poorly handled explosifs. It say 'do this if model is killed' so i guess it shouldn't work if you sacrifice. But here comes pere ravage specifically saying 'if this model is killed (not sacrificed)' that gives me a little doubt. I think that it is just a reminder but i wanna be 100% sure.

[Ludvig]

Malifaux is a bit in limbo. Sometimes it is very specific and sometimes not depending on if it is a defined keyword term or not. Keywords are supposed to be written with a capital letter to denote their keyword status but that isn't done consistently either. You can see that Action is written with a capital A in Barbaros' ability but not target 

Target is a keyword so uses the more specific way meaning it has to say target. I believe attack actions have a general rule that they always target a model as per the base rules but double check that.

Killed is also a specific keyword so only when killed, never sacrificed.

[solkan]

1 hour ago, Aegnor said:

I'm pretty sure to have the answer but i want confirmation.

How interact abilities like 'challenge' (barbaros, mancha roja) or 'hostile environment'(sparks) with abilities/attack that doesn't have the exact 'target' wording. For example 'feed the piggies : up to 4 friendly gremlins/pigs can make a 1/2/3 healing flip' or scion of the void's hollowing : 'select a friendly buried' or any other abilities with words like select,choose or no specific word at all. My mtg background tells me to be very literal and say that if it doesn't say target then you can do it but i don't know if malifaux is as 'wording specific' as Mtg.

Effects that target will use the word 'target' to say so.  That reference may be buried several sentences into the effect, or it may be the first word of the effect like "Target suffers 1/2/3 damage."

Instructions to "select" or "choose" a model are not targeting, by themselves.

Quote

Same kind of question for 'killed'. Especially for poorly handled explosifs. It say 'do this if model is killed' so i guess it shouldn't work if you sacrifice. But here comes pere ravage specifically saying 'if this model is killed (not sacrificed)' that gives me a little doubt. I think that it is just a reminder but i wanna be 100% sure.

If you look at the rules for Sacrifice in the rule book:

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Sacrifice

Effects that sacrifice models remove them from play, but the model does not count as having been killed. Sacrificed models do not drop Markers. 

So, yeah, it's just a reminder.

As far as why Pete Ravage says 'if this model is killed (not sacrificed)', it's important to note three important factors concerning the writing on the cards:

• The cards have been written over the course of several years.
• The cards have been written by multiple authors.
• Even though an effort is made to standardize the wording of effects, some cards have less room than others because they contain more abilities or actions.

Those factors are part of the answer to the question "Why does this effect remind me that there's a distinction between being killed and being sacrificed, but that other effect doesn't?"  

[Aegnor]

1 hour ago, Ludvig said:

Malifaux is a bit in limbo. Sometimes it is very specific and sometimes not depending on if it is a defined keyword term or not. Keywords are supposed to be written with a capital letter to denote their keyword status but that isn't done consistently either. You can see that Action is written with a capital A in Barbaros' ability but not target 

Target is a keyword so uses the more specific way meaning it has to say target. I believe attack actions have a general rule that they always target a model as per the base rules but double check that.

Killed is also a specific keyword so only when killed, never sacrificed.

In the main rules book they indeed say that attack actions are against 'target model' so you can say attack actions always target.

So attacks always target and other things only target if 'target' is written somewhere. i then guess triggers (like bloody command's deal with him) also targets only if 'target' is written.

Very mtg like then.

[Ludvig]

13 minutes ago, Aegnor said:

In the main rules book they indeed say that attack actions are against 'target model' so you can say attack actions always target.

So attacks always target and other things only target if 'target' is written somewhere. i then guess triggers (like bloody command's deal with him) also targets only if 'target' is written.

Very mtg like then.

If a trigger causes a model to take an action that action goes through all the normal steps (but doesn't cost ap) so it is declared and targets etc. Bit hazy on where bloody command is found, not sure if the above applies to it.

[Adran]

1 hour ago, Aegnor said:

In the main rules book they indeed say that attack actions are against 'target model' so you can say attack actions always target.

So attacks always target and other things only target if 'target' is written somewhere. i then guess triggers (like bloody command's deal with him) also targets only if 'target' is written.

Very mtg like then.

Deal with him (Titania's trigger) doesn't target the friendly model, it just needs the friendly model to be within 8" and LOS of the target of the attack. When the freinly modle makes the attack, it will target the original target. 

Kill and target are very much like MTG. Other key words not so much...