After Errata Misaki

[DXXXVIII]

Can Misaki hit herself with thunder using downburst?
She can definitely target herself with the tactical action downburst and therefore becomes "the target" for the following thunder attack.
Now the big question... Theres the rule that you cant target yourself with attack actions... but theres also teh rule that cardrules can make exceptions of bookrules... im confused.

 "Attack Actions require a target and LoS (see pg. 40). In
addition, a model may never target itself with an Attack
Action, unless specifically allowed by another rule."

"Downburst (Ca 5M / TN: 13M / Rg: 8): Models within p3 of target model must
succeed on Df 15 duels or be pushed 4" away from the target.

Trigger: Rolling Thunder: After succeeding, take a Thunder Attack Action
against the target, ignoring range."

[skoatz]

The trigger doesn't say that it would ignore the normal targeting restrictions.  In order for her to be able to target herself, the trigger would have to explicitly state that.  So I would say no she cannot target herself with a thunder attack.  If she targets herself with downburst and has a ram for the trigger, she just couldn't declare it.

[katadder]

does mean she can throw thunder attacks against people without engaging them if using a disguised misaki under deadly dance. add in recalled training and you can get loads of blasts off without even engaging the enemy

[Paradigm]

@katadder

You will still need an 8+ ram for every time you want to trigger Thunder, so it seems very impractical to do it more than once in a while. Add to that the fact that triggering Downburst gives enemy models surrounding the target an opportunity to push away, which is something of an anti-synergy when it comes to the blasting. It's a nice trick that might do something once in a while, but I don't think it will come up all that often.

[katadder]

still useful, if up against the viks and dont want to engage them but still attack and as I like misaki using her stones I can get these off with them.

depends if you are going for the unchargeable dance away misaki or not, opens up more routes

[Skitt_Happens]

What are people generally thinking about the "new" Misaki? I'm quite excited to get her back on the table, as she still does the cruise missile like no other, but now she has the option to be a bit trickier too.

My first thought, is using the Terracotta Warrior you can flip effectively between Ltd upgrades as required, and recharge RT. Has anyone come up with any interesting synergies or tactics for the now useful down burst and deadly dance?

[BigHammer]

She's going on the table tomorrow. She's bringing her Emissary so she can downburst into a focussed, ranged Thunder that has an extra blast and can potentially give her a free AP (and push her 4" in any direction too!)

Very excited for all the new tricks possible.

[InvokeChaos]

Misaki was the master I learned how to play Mlaifaux with, so I'm very excited. I have been using her exclusively as a scalpel/assassin, but the changes allow me to do board control, which I love.

Being able to thunder after downburst is great for screwing up positioning, putting out some damage, and on top of it, don't forget that Thunder has a built in next target trigger. She is also immune to Thunder damage, so you can get tricksy with positioning.

Super excited and can't wait to get her on the table with the changes  

[Skitt_Happens]

Thinking about it, the anti-synergy of down burst into thunder is kind of good: once you declare that trigger you leave your opponent a bad choice - leave the target isolated, or risk a blast to the face.

Emissary is a good shout!

[InvokeChaos]

I've always preferred the Emissary to Yu for Misaki, just because I want the charge and more potent attack of the Emissary. But with the changes there's all KINDS of shenanigans you can do with positioning. You could cloudburst enemies backwards into the emissary's range for instance. 

Though I do need to figure out how to generate more cards so that I can use her dance more often than just occasionally.

[Gennosuke]

I'm extremely happy with the changes to Misaki. And I think that which I like most, is that with the changes she isn't just "better", but more versatile, with different ways to play her, as the Stalking Bisento Misaki hasn't been affected that much by the changes.

Deadly dance was rather absurd before. In three years playing almost only Misaki, I think I never used it once. Now it's quite beautiful, althought in my playstile I don't think I would be using it very much, as If Misaki hasn't Stalking Bisento, then is carrying On Wings of Wind, and so already has better (0)s to do. Still, when no other (0) can be used, or the push is critical, then Deadly Dance really shines.

But Downburst, my gosh, it's so nice now. A Stalking Bisento Misaki will still rather spend her APs killing enemies, but with other builds (I'm finding On Wings of Wind, Misdirection and another upgrade of choice a nice combination to get a high movility and disrupting Misaki) it's really nice.

The "Downburst Yourself" tactic looks quite better now, needing les cards to achieve it (as it's easier to fail the duel).
Deploy in line Shang, Misaki, and *heavy hitter* (let's say Izamu).

First AP > Downburst upon Shang, Misaki and Izamu are pushed 4" away towards the center of the table.
Second AP > Downburst upon Misaki Herself, pushing Izamu another 4".
(0) AP > Push Izamu another 4" with On Wings Of Wind.
Third AP > Walk to place Misaki Wherever you'll need her the second turn.
End of turn > Push Misaki another 3".

Izamu is now 12" into the table ready to charge in the first turn, and Misaki about 10". It's a little card dependant (two 8s, and failing the duels with an 8 or less for Misaki, and two 10 or less for Izamu), but easier an cheaper than before. 
Later on game, Misaki won't regret that much not having stalking bisento, as she can play to Downburst > Thunder > Push, having a Master with extreme movility to achieve strats/schemes and disrupting enemie play with Misdirection, Deadly Dance, and Downburst.

Well, maybe I'm rambling too much xD but I'm really happy with the changes, and I'm quited excited to at least be able to play (without feeling you're limiting yourself) a non-Stalking Bisento Misaki.

[BigHammer]

Played a couple of games with Misaki with the following setup now:

Misaki: Disguise, Untouchable, Misdirection (5SS cache)

Kamaitachi

Ohaguro Bettari: Recalled Training

Shadow Emissary: Conflux of Thunder

Chiaki the Niece: The Peaceful Waters

Terracotta Warrior

Shadow Effigy

Monk of Low River

 

Misaki's board control is so powerful now. There are much bigger areas that your opponents models are reluctant to move into because Misaki threatens them without herself being threatened aside from strong ranged attacks, and even then she can survive many of those thanks to Misdirection.

She still forces difficult decisions on your opponent with the combo of Misdirection and Assassination, but can now also skirmish and disrupt effectively from range. Her already long reach with all her pushes and Diving Charge have been compounded in that you can stay further back toward areas that you want to protect, etc, and respond to flanking threats without leaving your entire crew behind.

She's also now far harder to kill in this setup, and with healing coming from the Kamaitachi, the Monk of Low River and Chiaki, she can afford to take a huge hit and keep going easily.

Deadly Dance has done its work well, too. My opponents had to find ways to push up to her to get any sort of attacks at all, and even then it was usually one that they had to pay cards to land due to Misdirection. I didn't have to throw cards to push even once, as they simply figured it wasn't worth the AP walking up to her at all.

There's fun times ahead for Misaki this year, even with Frame for Murder becoming more common.

[Skitt_Happens]

Sudden thought. Disguised build. Charge target and whack them twice, then downburst same target cheating/stoning for a ram. Cheat down Misaki's df duel to push away and potentially push off "free" thunder attack. Then start the deadly boogie.

Misaki is now potentially 10" away from someone she just hit  three times!

[Skitt_Happens]

Further to above - Misaki will be good for Tail'em denial: "I'm going to hit you three times then dissappear around this corner..."