tara Frustrations with Tara and the Nothing Beast

[BlitzMonkey]

I have played Tara a few times at this point.  Not enough to master her, but enough to get the idea behind her.  While I am still figuring out Tara (and knowing that the reactivate every turn may not be the best thing), my frustrations with the Nothing Beast are extreme.  Every time I have brought it, it does little to no damage.  I do try to keep it buried and re-bombed out if need be, but the minimum damage of 2 is way too risky for me.  Generally, what I will do is give it fast and when I bring it out, try to either focus and attack twice or focus once and charge if I have to.  

 

For instance, last game I played was Sunday.  It was Guard the Stash with Take Prisoner, Bodyguard, Breakthrough, and Spring the Trap.  It was vs Arcanist.  My list was Tara with Obliteration, Dead of Winter, and Knowledge of Eternity, Karina with the summoning upgrade, a Death Marshall, Aionus, The Nothing Beast with the 0 Upgrade Shield, and 3 Void Wretches.  His list was Mei Feng, Kang, Joss, a Metal Gamin, 2 Metal Workers, and the emberling.  I can't remember all the upgrades.  I ended up winning, but it was beyond frustrating as a I didn't win initiative until turn 4 (so much for positive flips), despite stoning every turn, I had one turn where I had some decent cards, which left me to just chancing it (didn't work out so well).  And when the Nothing Beast did attack, around 5 or 6 attacks he just did min damage despite having focused attacked a bit.  I DID land one severe turn 3, killing Kang and denying Bodyguard (which is why I won), but in general, it was like I was made of paper.  He got in my face.  I tried to bury threats and failed.  I tried to kill threats and failed.  I essentially won because 1.  I got a lucky damage swing on Kang and 2. I was able to get a void wretch in his back field early to get full on break through.

 

The schemes I picked were Bodyguard on Aionus and Breakthrough, btw.  My previous game with Tara and the Nothing Beast was similar.  Maybe it is just me, but I am always wishing I brought Killjoy or Bishop.

 

Is there something I am missing?  Or was my Tara list just ok?  I kind of wish I dropped Dead of Winter, the Nothing Beast, and The Death Marshall for a Trapper and Killjoy.  

[daniello_s]

Nothing Beast is one of my favor models in Tara's crew.

I always have 2 beat-sticks (except the time when I bring Aionus to the table). First one is to be delivered by Tara with her burying shenanigans and usually it is either Killjoy, Desolate Engine or Bishop.

Second beat-stick is always Nothing Beast with his 0SS upgrade and I use him to hunt down enemy scheme runners and models which can be killed with single Severe Damage. I like to have Malifaux Child in the crew so he can give Fast to the NB. When my first beat-stick is killed then NB or Johana takes over its role. 

So far NB never failed me thanks to his awesome movement, high moderate and severe damage and Casting Expert ability.

[BlitzMonkey]

4 minutes ago, daniello_s said:

Nothing Beast is one of my favor models in Tara's crew.

I always have 2 beat-sticks (except the time when I bring Aionus to the table). First one is to be delivered by Tara with her burying shenanigans and usually it is either Killjoy, Desolate Engine or Bishop.

Second beat-stick is always Nothing Beast with his 0SS upgrade and I use him to hunt down enemy scheme runners and models which can be killed with single Severe Damage. I like to have Malifaux Child in the crew so he can give Fast to the NB. When my first beat-stick is killed then NB or Johana takes over its role. 

So far NB never failed me thanks to his awesome movement, high moderate and severe damage and Casting Expert ability.

So if you brought Aionus, would you bring the NB still or someone else?

[valhallan42nd]

The Nothing Beast is a great addition... to my display table. I rarely use him. I know that Ressers can bring crooligans, boosting the NB's power with the -1WP aura, but I don't recall if the outcasts have anything with Creepy in their lists.

[BlitzMonkey]

16 minutes ago, daniello_s said:

Nothing Beast is one of my favor models in Tara's crew.

I always have 2 beat-sticks (except the time when I bring Aionus to the table). First one is to be delivered by Tara with her burying shenanigans and usually it is either Killjoy, Desolate Engine or Bishop.

Second beat-stick is always Nothing Beast with his 0SS upgrade and I use him to hunt down enemy scheme runners and models which can be killed with single Severe Damage. I like to have Malifaux Child in the crew so he can give Fast to the NB. When my first beat-stick is killed then NB or Johana takes over its role. 

So far NB never failed me thanks to his awesome movement, high moderate and severe damage and Casting Expert ability.

Also, to follow up, do you think that 10 points of a scheme runner hunter is a bit much?  The Void Wretches, imo, do well in counter scheme runners.

[daniello_s]

If I take Aionus, NB is my beat-stick and Johana supports it with this task.

As for 10SS scheme runner hunter thing - you don't have to use it his way but when opponent has i.e. Killjoy wrecking his main models, NB sorts out the problem of  enemy scheme runners and thus deny VP for your opponent which IMO is worth even more than 10SS.

Also Fast NB is very reliable in killing strong models as well but you have to learn how to run it properly.

[BlitzMonkey]

So what is a good core Tara list for you?

[valhallan42nd]

Two Trappers, Hans, Rusty Alyce/Hannah with I pay better, void wretches for flavor.

[daniello_s]

55 minutes ago, valhallan42nd said:

Two Trappers, Hans, Rusty Alyce/Hannah with I pay better, void wretches for flavor.

Boooring aka another version of Hamelin/Von Schill

[valhallan42nd]

1 minute ago, daniello_s said:

Boooring aka another version of Hamelin/Von Schill

Well, yes, but I'm incredibly boring. I use my boring powers to lull opponents to sleep.

[BlitzMonkey]

13 minutes ago, daniello_s said:

Boooring aka another version of Hamelin/Von Schill

I'll take effective but boring at the moment.   Unless you can offer up a good core thematic list........as I said, her thematic options aren't appealing to me atm.  Karina did well, I might add.

[daniello_s]

List really depends on strategy/schemes but if I had to go with one, fixed list on the tournament I would choose this:

Tara -- 5ss pool
 +Knowledge Of Eternity
 +Obliteration Symbiote
Malifaux Child
Freikorps Trapper
Johan
 +Oathkeeper
Killjoy
The Nothing Beast
 +Void Shield - 0ss
Void Wretch
Void Wretch 

 

[Spike0738]

My problem with The Nothing Beast.... 

The fact that it's not an actual beast and I can't take it with Marcus... haha

[SpiralngCadavr]

He's pretty good if you dump him out and have the right cards to focus a lot, since it's his high damage that does the trick.

However, he's still one of the most fragile and hard to use models in the upper bracket, and that's to get him working okay. At that point, most of what you have going for you is your opponents won't know how he works.

With hannah and (unless I'm horribly mistaken) aionus with natural synergy/overlaps, and regular efficient beaters like killjoy, bishop, or taelor, though, I think the nothing beast is really quite comparatively poor and only take him against newer or worse players to give myself a handicap/practice.

[BlitzMonkey]

1 minute ago, SpiralngCadavr said:

He's pretty good if you dump him out and have the right cards to focus a lot, since it's his high damage that does the trick.

However, he's still one of the most fragile and hard to use models in the upper bracket, and that's to get him working okay. At that point, most of what you have going for you is your opponents won't know how he works.

With hannah and (unless I'm horribly mistaken) aionus with natural synergy/overlaps, and regular efficient beaters like killjoy, bishop, or taelor, though, I think the nothing beast is really quite comparatively poor and only take him against newer or worse players to give myself a handicap/practice.

Speaking of, have you reached for Aionus a bit more since he has came out or is Hannah still your go-to?  

[SpiralngCadavr]

Heh, haven't even gotten him on a base/gotten a game in, hence the theory.

I think Hannah will still be the strongest reliable burier due to how she interacts with death marshals (or aionus in a pinch, for that matter), with aionus as a scheme runner/general utility/attacking buried. Maybe if I'm not interested in offensive bury shenanigans I'd take aionus for his buffs vs. fast/slow, but at that point, I think I'd take a regular beater.

I'm feeling like the pair of them will be my go-to expensive models except when I absolutely need bodies or raw damage output, unless aionus has some flaw that's only obvious through play.

[BlitzMonkey]

Again, scheme dependent, but I am guessing your core is looking like:

 

Tara with Dead of Winter and Obliteration Symbiote

Death Marshall 

Hannah with Ancient Tomes

Aionus

 

This leaves 17 points.  Knowledge of Eternity isn't bad.  Karina wouldn't be bad as her summons can be given fast by Aionus decently well.  This would put you at 10 with Karina.  

 

2 Void Wretches would be useful I would think.  So the final list would be Tara with all 3 of the main upgrades, Karina, Death Marshall, Hannah with Ancient Tomes, Aionus, and 2 Void Wretches.  That seems groovy. 

[Mikey_C]

The Nothing beast works best (IMO) in 2 situations. 

1) Aggressive Burying

2) Playing with a small hand

If you're not doing either of those, you can probably find a better beater.

 

A list I use for small hand and aggressive burying:

Tara, - Dead of Winter - Knowledge of Eternity - Eternal Journey (<- could swap this out but I like it)

Karina - Faces in the Void

Scion - Scramble

Nothing Beast - Void Shield 

Death Marshal x2

Void Wretch x2

 

I use this mostly to run schemes and annoy the opponent by draining their hand vs glimpse the void tests. 

Dead of winter with Knowledge of Eternity can make those glimpse test from KoE essentially TN 15, which generally either buries an enemy model or drains their hand to match mine (only I actually benefit from the small hand). It's not a great list for killing a lot of things though.

It's fun and thematic if that is your thing.

 

[SpiralngCadavr]

Blitz, I Pay Better over Ancient Tomes (Times will work if I've stripped out the DM since it is pricey), and yeah, probably Karina. If scheme running, yeah, wretches are great, otherwise I'd probably fit a trapper, johan, or second DM in and IDK what else. I also tend to run pretty upgrade-light.

Mikey's list is a pretty fun one running purely in theme, though I can't really picture sticking the NB and scion both in the list, since they both take such work to get mileage out of them.

[BlitzMonkey]

3 minutes ago, SpiralngCadavr said:

Blitz, I Pay Better over Ancient Tomes (Times will work if I've stripped out the DM since it is pricey), and yeah, probably Karina. If scheme running, yeah, wretches are great, otherwise I'd probably fit a trapper, johan, or second DM in and IDK what else. I also tend to run pretty upgrade-light.

Mikey's list is a pretty fun one running purely in theme, though I can't really picture sticking the NB and scion both in the list, since they both take such work to get mileage out of them.

Ah, so you give up the Void Record for the copy of the Death Marshall ability.  Gotcha.

 

Ok, that makes sense.  

[SpiralngCadavr]

Yeah, hannah's got a killer WP, so can make it nearly impossible for some things to get out of the box, and it's her 0 so it doesn't compete with her regular actions.

[MR TORGUE]

Tara brings an amazing concept to the table; its a shame she's just underwhelming - I enjoy using her but i very much see her as a casual master.

I never seem to mind the Nothing Beast - he's always performed well in games; we usually use a lot of terrain so his incorporeal really shines and theres less chance of him getting shot down early game. 
I would only really expect him to attack once per turn as that 7 max damage is just too good to not focus up for and i may go defensive with the last AP if i didn't kill the target; to tie it up and dump a card for +1 df.

[Khyodee]

So your playing something like this Cadavr?

Tara -- 6ss
 +Dead Of Winter - 1ss
 +Obliteration Symbiote - 2ss

Aionus - 12ss

Death Marshal - 6ss

Freikorps Trapper - 6ss

Hannah - 10ss
 +I Pay Better - 1ss

Taelor - 10ss

I have such are hard time putting Hannah in the list as she is already quite expensive, but I suppose I should give her a trial run for once and see how she does.

[daniello_s]

6 activations only???... And I thought my crew concepts are sometimes at least crazy...

[Mikey_C]

 

15 hours ago, daniello_s said:

6 activations only???... And I thought my crew concepts are sometimes at least crazy...

7 If Tara goes twice. That's not too bad of a number.