Mei Feng: Arcanists or Ten Thunders?

[ierthling]

Hi all - I'm relatively new to Malifaux, been playing once or twice a week for the past few months and loving every second of it. After an early, fun, but chaotic time with Som'er, I picked up Mei Feng, and I'm really liking her. I've been running her as Ten Thunders, with various combinations of Kang, Rail Golem, Metal Gamin, Rail Workers, and Archers. I'm contemplating where to expand from here, and in particular, whether to emphasize Arcanists or 10 Thunders - eventually I'll pick up more of both but with limited funds I'd like to make smart purchases.

 

I had been thinking I would get the Ramos box: Joss and Howard L. seem like they would work really well with Mei, and even the spiders could be good for some faster moving railwalk targets. But tonight I borrowed a friend's Sidir for a reckoning match, and he was the absolute star of the show: killed McMourning for Assassinate, killed other models for Reckoning, and even helped Burt Jebson (as a mercenary) with his Vendetta against Santiago.

 

So now I'm wondering: in general, do people like Mei better as an arcanist or as 10T? Has anybody run her with Wastrels (since I'd have to buy the McCabe box to get Sidir, I'm wondering about them)? Other directions I should be thinking about to add some tougher, higher stone models to her crew for things like Reckoning?

 

Any and all thoughts appreciated!

 

-Matt

[Fenton Crack]

Welcome to the game.

While I would not consider Mei my main, I do keep her in rotation. I personally always run her Arcanist. This has a lot to of with the fact I play mainly Arcanists, so take what I'm saying for what it's worth, and possibly colored by that fact.

Upgrade wise, most of what I take are her crew specific upgrades that can go either way, and as far as generic faction upgrades, the only 10T one I really feel any jealousy for is Misdirection, which seems like it would be quite fun with her.

On the Arcanist side, I love Arcane Resevoir for the 7th card, as is one of the few faction upgrades I put on Mei. I love Imbued Energies for Kang or any other heavy hitter, as Fast is great, and the card draw if they did before using it is a consolation prize.

So, upgrade wise, I like Arcanist over 10T, but again, that might be just out of comfort.

While there may be some good synergies with some 10T models and Mei, she really shines with constructs, and to utilize Railwalk effectively I would say she needs plenty of them.

She can certainly take the foundry models either way, but if you take her Arcsnist, you open the door to so many more. If I can take a model that is great, but get the added benefit of being a railwalker node, it just seems like stones better spent.

Granted, there are probably more ranged options with 10T, as the Arcanst minions are not known for their ranged attacks, but since may can bounce around the board with Railwalk and then Railkick with her ridiculous range 3, she is likely going to be the ranged killer in your crew, and ignoring cover that archers and the like have to worry about.

All that said, there are likely great reasons to take her 10T I'm simply ignorant of presently.

[rover1013]

Also primarily an Arcanist player and Mei has been my goto gal for a bit now (so versatile! . Joss is basically never bad to have (with enough other constructs) and I often take him instead of Kang. Howard has been a bit hit or miss for me, which is only irritating cuz he's so pricey.

 

I tend to segregate my lists into "living" and "construct" heavy lists (which might not be the best way to go about it, but I'm still experimenting), though I pretty much always include a couple rail workers, and I tend to take the construct heavy lists when I feel like a heavy offense will pay off for the strat/schemes. A number of people seem to rave about Metal Gamins, but I have yet to get them to work out for me so when it comes to constructs I'm usually looking at "beefy" models.

 

A couple of my favorite models that haven't yet been mentioned are Union Miners and Mannequins for scheme marker craziness. I tend to favor the Union Miners for really heavy marker based scheme pools, but a Mannequin paired with a Rail Worker shooting out markers from 6" away is a ton of fun if not a bit more work.

 

Still on my list of things to try are the arachnids and playing around a bit with the burning sub-theme more. Spiders look like they could be really good for some crazy movement.

 

I'm interested to hear what other people have to say about her in 10T.  I'd probably never run her that way in a tourny, but it might be something to toy around with.

[Argentbadger]

My impression is that 'the forums' generally regard Mei Feng as stronger in Arcanists than in Ten Thunders.  I don't play Arcanists so I can't really compare the relative power of the two options but I've played lots of Mei Feng in Ten Thunders and never felt that I was missing out on either efficacy or entertainment.

 

My first advice would be to proxy a few games as either and see what takes your fancy but it sounds like you're already doing this.  So maybe you could read some battle reports; I always find that to be a great way to see how crews play in practice.

[DeleteAccount]

I play her as a Ten Thunders and right of the bat, Komainu are golden with her. Another construct that just happens to attack Wp instead of Df, opening up her options. Add an ancestor and everything is good in the world and well, all the ancestors are good picks, specially Toshiro who loves the emberling dropping scrap or Chiaki who is just all around awesome.

 

Sidir gives her a + to all het attack flips if he brongs the Promises upgrade, Tengu are up there with molemen as objective grabbers and she can still take Willie, the Rail Golem and Metal gamin if she wants.

 

Thing is, no matter how overblown people make it seem, she only really needs 2-3 constructs in her crew and the rest is pretty much freestyle. That means that once you cover the "construct minimum", she can take whatever she wants and Ten Thunders have a lot of nice pieces with their own interactions that give her stranger vectors than just using spiders, coryphee and the mech rider.

[Falconrider]

What Razhem said, 10T opens up many more options for Mei over the Arcanists.  Toshiro and Emberling works very well and Yin's Gnawing fears making the enemy model suffer   to Ca and Wp duels makes killing things with the Komainu that much easier.  There are so many more interesting model choices in the 10T faction which makes for a wider and absolutely more fun ways to play her crew.

[ierthling]

Thanks, guys! I'm glad to hear she has fans on both sides. I hadn't noticed that Komainu were constructs! In the game I mentioned above, I had Promises on Sidir, and everyone in my crew had upgrades (wanted to try out a small, relatively tough crew for reckoning, so I took Mei, Kang, Sidir, Rail Golem, and Burt Jebson) - it made a huge difference. I've also been liking Recalled Training - to all flips for the remainder of the turn meant Rail Golem and Kang both got to have huge turns and then effectively be defensive (since they kept their pluses for the rest of the turn - almost as good as D+1). So I'll have to borrow or proxy in Howard or Joss and see how that works with the Arcanist upgrades, but I feel like either way I can't go wrong and sooner or later I'll be wanting more of both factions.

 

As far as the Metal Gamin go, I have been taking them when I'm doing scheme marker stuff that's not too too far up the table (protect territory, line in the sand, etc.); once they're in place, with protection of metal, armor +2, and Df+2 without discarding, they're very hard to dislodge. But the only game I've seen them do anything very spectacular was when I played someone who fielded a bunch of puppets - magnetism for a (0) 6" push and 2 damage is fantastic. Otherwise though I feel like the Komainu could do better service and I'm going to have to give them a try as well.

 

Anyway thanks y'all! We'll see how it goes from here...

[DavicusPrime]

I'm noticing a trend...  The choice tends to depend on which faction you have the most models from.

 

I started Malifaux in 1.5 with Ramos then Kaeris, so when I added Mei to my collection, I naturally use her as an Arcanist.

 

My usual opponent has quite a lot of 10T models and has offered to let me borrow some so I can run her as 10T, but I'm so unfamiliar with them, I just haven't tried it yet.

 

-DavicusPrime

[Archmage]

Seconding a lot of what's been said here, 10T Mei has Misdirection, which is completely excellent. With a mask in your Df total you can hop away if you win or redirect the attack if you lose. It's an amazing win-win. 10T also lets you hire a lot of really wacky but excellent models if you go "out of theme." Toshiro summoning komainu and buffing all your rail workers and whatever else? Yes, please. 

 

If you're in a fixed faction but not fixed list tournament declaring 10T is the wild card faction anyway. I can't think of too many circumstances where I'd pick Mei over Misaki, but if Mei's who you have your model pool for 10T is huge and you can do a lot of crazy stuff.

 

It's basically:

 

Misdirection and Imbued Training versus Arcane Reservior, Imbued Energies, and Imbued Protection

Howard, Coryphee, and Mech Rider versus Toshiro, Fuhatsu, Izamu (sadly not a construct), Sidir, The Lone Swordsman or whatever other crazy big 10T model you want (and you can still hire the Rail Golem). 

 

 

Katakana Snipers look like they'd be great ranged support for a 10T Mei list. You can still get metal gamin, Willie, and Kang no matter which way you're going.

[EntrepeNinja]

I actually just put up a big post about this in the 10t forum also- I'm really interested in trying to field her as a 10t for a while focusing on komainu, Toshiro, and high river monks. I think they've done a really good job of making her serviceable in both factions! And I agree with Raz, just because she has a gimmick with constructs doesn't mean you have to run a crew literally FULL of constructs.

 

ENinja

[Fenton Crack]

I think the biggest thing keeping me from running her 10T (aside from my Arcanist comfort level as previously stated), is that many of the 10T models I would like to try running her with are simply not out yet.

 

I know one can find models that are suitable proxies, but my cheapness/laziness with the knowledge I will buy, build and paint the legit models when they inevitably come out, has me not wanting to invest the time and funds into proxies.

[EntrepeNinja]

@fenton agreed. I could proxy komainu and high river and sensei Yu and tengu and kamaitachi, but then I would probably end up wanting to buy them all again at release..maybe for now they're just a vassal crew.

[Falconrider]

Something to consider is 10T are a faction teaming with strong shooting models, almost if not as strong as any of the other shooting heavy factions if you remove their Masters from the equation.  The ability to reliably attack models at range and gain board control should not be underestimated.  Many 10T shooters can hold their own in melee which is a nice bonus.  

 

Quite a lot of 10T models are dual faction which opens up other factions play styles which can snugly fit into your crew and make a nice surprise for your opponent.      

 

Consider this crew which i took to a recent tourney.  I'm biased but i can't see any Arcanist crew coming up with a crazy combination like that 

 

Mei -  recalled, seismic 5 pool

Sidir - promises, recalled 

Lazarus - recalled

Katanaka Sniper

Katanaka Sniper

Rail Worker

Metal Gamin

[EntrepeNinja]

But... what does Mei bring to that list? I'm the first to say you don't need to build a whole list around a master's gimmick, but there should be a reason the master is IN the list... Save for Rail Worker and Metal Gamin giving her a way around, I see Mei just getting in the way of that list.

 

ENinja

[Falconrider]

But... what does Mei bring to that list? I'm the first to say you don't need to build a whole list around a master's gimmick, but there should be a reason the master is IN the list... Save for Rail Worker and Metal Gamin giving her a way around, I see Mei just getting in the way of that list.

 

ENinja

She brings what she brings to any other list, solid melee and protection for her crew with Vent Steam.

 

Mei has 3 jump points, (remember Lazarus is also a construct) which should be enough of them to utilise Railwalk.  

 

As a change up swap Sidir + gamin for Toshiro + Emberling and the list can summon Komainu.  Laz gives the Emberling an alternate way of dropping scrap with any    then he can heal back up with Self Repair.  

 

Why you think she would get in the way?

[EntrepeNinja]

I dunno- I guess I would worry about Mei tieing up models in engagements that the rest of the crew would then have to shoot in to. She doesn't have a ton of support at that time, or people setting her up for strong activations. It seems like more of a support master list, for some reason. I hadn't thought about vent steam- and that's a solid trick to be sure. But then you're just mostly running a gunline with Mei as a guerilla combat bodyguard? 

 

I suppose it's just not my cup of tea, sorry to be contrary. Give it a go! Tell us how it works!

[Falconrider]

I dunno- I guess I would worry about Mei tieing up models in engagements that the rest of the crew would then have to shoot in to. She doesn't have a ton of support at that time, or people setting her up for strong activations. It seems like more of a support master list, for some reason. I hadn't thought about vent steam- and that's a solid trick to be sure. But then you're just mostly running a gunline with Mei as a guerilla combat bodyguard? 

 

I suppose it's just not my cup of tea, sorry to be contrary. Give it a go! Tell us how it works!

You pretty much called it right and i like your analogy of guerrilla combat bodyguard    but hey everyone has differing play styles and crew selections which makes Malifaux such an awesome game.  Btw that crew won the tourney 

[EntrepeNinja]

Nice! I really gotta get my feet wet with Mei, and soon... I've been waffling between starting my Arcanists back up and trying to run Kaeris/Mei/Ironsides, or move into 10t and run Mei/Lucas/Someone.... Brewie?

 

I've got the models for arcanist, mostly. I'd have to get/proxy a ton of models to be able to 10t basically at all, but there's something about the 10t Mei list that calls to me. The samurais and ninjas have always been my weak spot...

 

ENinja

[Falconrider]

Lucas looks like quite a lot of fun, i have his crew and he's the only model unassembled.   Brewie i will likely get just so i have all the 10T masters and i want the moon shinobi.  

 

Love the Samurai in fact i plan to get 6 for using with Misaki for a Seven Samurai Themed crew.  

[EntrepeNinja]

Love the Samurai in fact i plan to get 6 for using with Misaki for a Seven Samurai Themed crew.  

 

That.... is awesome.

[ierthling]

I love the 7 Samurai idea, although aren't they 9 points each?

 

And can I ask Falconrider, what are you proxying for the Snipers? Have people found models for the Komainu? I'm really intrigued by the addition of Toshiro with maybe some PZs and then summoning in Komainu off the Emberling's scrap markers...

 

And yeah, I don't think Mei is only worthwhile when she can do a lot of crazy railwalking all over the table - the most successful game I've played with her, I only had one construct (the rail golem), and she still managed a couple of crucial jumps off it.

[Falconrider]

I love the 7 Samurai idea, although aren't they 9 points each?

 

And can I ask Falconrider, what are you proxying for the Snipers? Have people found models for the Komainu? I'm really intrigued by the addition of Toshiro with maybe some PZs and then summoning in Komainu off the Emberling's scrap markers...

 

And yeah, I don't think Mei is only worthwhile when she can do a lot of crazy railwalking all over the table - the most successful game I've played with her, I only had one construct (the rail golem), and she still managed a couple of crucial jumps off it.

Samurai are 8 stones each and 4 will be able to take a 0 stone upgrade.

For snipers any model with a long rifle with likely do the job though i'm using Guild Riflemen for them.  Komainu i've blu tac my Guild Hounds to a 40mm base.  

 

Construct wise Mei only need 2 or 3 for Railwalk and like you discovered even 1 will still work, heck i've had games where i've not used Railwalker at all.

[EntrepeNinja]

My main concern wasn't that she wasn't going to be railwalking enough, but that she would get in the way of the shooters by way of engaging priority targets. At that point they'd have to shoot into engagements, but it apparently wasn't a problem if you had a little forsight.  

[Malicte]

One thing to keep in mind when choosing 10T vs Arcanists as well is that Mei can be remarkably effective as an Arcanist with a relatively small number of units.  Metal Gamin, Mech Rider, Howard, Coryphee, and you're 9/10ths of the way to just about anything you want her to do.

 

As 10T, to be really, truly, effective, you need to have access to a lot more of the model range.  10T have a lot of options and their strength as a faction lies in being able to tailor themselves to the strategy using those options.  Obviously having those options means *buying* them, and that adds up.  Fast.

[ierthling]

Yeah, I have run into the problem when you have shooters / casters with her that you have to time her Vent Steam correctly or you can end up penalizing your own models. To say nothing of having to randomize shooting. But if she can jump in, beat some people up with 1 AP + free attacks, then jump back out of the way, with a free triggered vent steam to protect your other models, who then open fire, well, I could see getting some mileage out of that.

 

Glad to hear the 7 Samurai crew is feasible! It's an awesome idea.

 

And Malicte, I see exactly what you mean - and not only do you need a wide range of models, you need (or at least want) a bunch of models that don't exist yet. Nobody I play with objects to proxies but I hesitate to buy something to proxy with when I'm probably going to want to get the real thing when it comes out. But once the next set of models comes out we'll at least have Samurai, Dawn Serpent, etc., so that will help!