-Loki-

The rule that stops infinite loops specifically says Triggers and Actions that provide an extra Action can only repeat once. The Frenzy gain Reinforcement tokens off their Crow trigger, but they have a general ability to discard a Reinforcment token to make the same attack again. It's not an action that lets them repeat the attack. As written, they can just attack forever as long as you've got the Reinforcement tokens. It'll probably get an errata that also says Abilities, but really 2 attacks off each is usually enough to brutalize anything.

Getting all those penetration flips from luring into Hazardous Tide Pools is reliant on getting the Lure off in the first place. If you flip badly and don't have a card to cheat, and/or the opponent flips well or has a good card to cheat, the Lure doesn't go off and you don't get any penetration flips. The Frenzy have pretty massive weight of attacks. If they have a few Reinforcment tokens or to manage to fish some out with their Crow trigger (which isn't too unlikely with their extra flip), they just keep on hitting and hitting and hitting. If the hitting engine stalls on one, there's another two to start up.

I put The Frenzy down today in a 1 commander game, Relics of Ancient Malifaux and Sharktooth Necklaces. While it was nice being able to cast 3 Healing Magics, the bonus flips to Actions are a massive, massive bonus from Sharktooth Necklaces. They did so much heavy lifting, since you really want Crows and preferably high cards on their melee attacks. They managed to kill the Lord of Steel with all their bonus attacks brute forcing through Evasive Maneuvers. It was a real shift from the Stormsirens long range luring into tide pools so I was initially hesitant to try them single commander, but I'm glad I did.

Fair enough. I was just curious if it all had to be available at the same time to choose the order - if it’s on the other side of the card it’s not available until you flip the card. That opens up some neat tactics.

The only bit that I’m still curious about is the effects being on different sides on the card, if that affects it. The Devouring Eel has the same little trick - if you can get three Reinforcement tokens on it when it’s not in Glory, it can activate, Devour something, flip to Glory, and Split to create another Eel in the one activation.

Hordes need a few units extra to help out. They rely on Reinforcement tokens and the methods of putting them down in the starter are limited.

Luckily Hordes players have the Tidal Scepter. Teleporting The Frenzy or Horomatangi into the Grenadiers will finish them.

1. Sounds like you're not getting enough Reinforcement tokens on it. 2. Still a gamble. Beating you by 6 at Df 3 still requires a bad flip from you and a good flip from them. With no guaranteed hand and any hand you get coming at the cost of Tactics tokens there's no guaranteed cheat to get the margin. Even if they do, they're wasting their hand for that or they're going to risk not shooting the rest of your stuff at the chance of glorying their army? Go ahead. Let me advance and take objectives. 3. Not sure where the issue is. If you haven't had problems and you don't think it's worth the points, chances are you're not using it aggressively enough. The difference between Overeager and Powerful Legs comes down to playstyle. Overeager gives you a much better chance to kill what you charge, which gives you a better chance to charge again. Also it's kinda hard to tarpit Hordes when their most common commander can Lure at 24", and send the Lured target in different directions.

My guess is it’ll remain out of stock until M3E. No point ordering a whole new production run if the cards are already planned on being replaced.

Silurids, Gupps and Spawn Mother are still available to Zoraida through Swampfiend. Guess they just didn’t want them with other Neverborn masters.

Allegiance box already has a couple of ways to hand them out without Speckled Crawlers. Stormsiren with Relics of Ancient Malifaux and Karkinoi laying Egg Clutches. Speckled Crawlers are autopilot for handing them out, but it's important to remember they're pretty crap in combat. You're buying them as a tarpit and/or to hand out Reinforcement tokens. Putting them in the Allegiance box would have made it easier to hand out those tokens, but as a standalone force it would have completely lacked teeth. Replacing the Karkinoi removes your shock troops, replacing the Striped Skulkers removes your basic melee grunts. The Allegiance box works fine with those two sources as long as you properly utilize tide pools (remember you get to place 3 with the Stormsiren, and she can summon more when in Glory. That's a lot of -2 to opponent Av's).

Haven’t used it but I’m looking at Overeager (+2 to all acting values during its activation), Roiling Innards (extra ranged attack at Av 8 (thanks to Overeager) that flips target from Glory) and Crushing Hands (Av 8 melee attack that Champions can’t pass wounds off to nearby units) for my usual build. It’s definitely worth getting Reinforcement tokens on it. A Commander with Relics of Ancient Malifaux should make it it’s first priority, same with gobbling an egg clutch and/or grabbing a token off some speckled Crawlers. Reinforcement tokens are life for it. That’s Hordes in a nutshell though. Get those reinforcement tokens down.

Base sizes and model count are wrong. Striped are 9 40mm on 3 100mm fireteam bases. Speckled are 10 30mm on 2 120mm fireteam bases. Striped are fine. They’re the basic melee grunt. Speckled are a tarpit and Reinforcement token generator, they do different things.

There’s other ways of getting them that require more effort. Relics of Ancient Malifaux gives a Commander a ranged Reinforcement token application with a trigger to cast again, and a choice to actually reinforce. Karkinoi laying egg clutches gives up to 2 if you flip the right suits when devouring them. Horomatangi can shout 2 onto a unit twice a turn. Some units have triggers to get them. Speckled Crawlers are just the most effortless way.

I don’t find it worth dropping The Frenzy’s upgrade, Shark Tooth Necklaces. Immunity to Area and positive flips to duels is just too good, especially as it lets you fish for suits. Their triggers are great.