graeme27uk Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 What are strategies to deal with tara's bury delivery system? Yesterday she delivered Killjoy turn 1/2 into my face. Killjoy's 1 charge and onslaught trigger caused huge damage. Plus Killjoy was fast so he could charge 3 times in one activation for a minimum of 6 attacks. Took out my RN who was on Defensive stance. Leaving not very much that could take Killjoy out. Took tara out eventually but damage was done... How do other people deal with this sort of thing? Easier said than done to take out Killjoy or Tara. Just rather demoralising and disheartening to see that happen..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Firstly you need to note that Killjoys Charge is only reduced to (1)AP if it's the first action he takes.. that makes him much less mobile. Neither me or Gozer had noticed that last night, but it makes a HUGE amount of difference.. So a Fast Killjoy can only Charge twice.. and then only if he is fast and kills the target of the first Charge without having to spend extra AP. Also if you know it's coming save your high cards for when he has the suit to onslaught. Easier said than done to take out Killjoy or Tara. Just rather demoralising and disheartening to see that happen..... It's possible to do, I managed it even against UBER MEGA CHARGY Killjoy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graeme27uk Posted March 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Firstly you need to note that Killjoys Charge is only reduced to (1)AP if it's the first action he takes.. that makes him much less mobile. Neither me or Gozer had noticed that last night, but it makes a HUGE amount of difference.. So a Fast Killjoy can only Charge twice.. and then only if he is fast and kills the target of the first Charge without having to spend extra AP. Also if you know it's coming save your high cards for when he has the suit to onslaught. It's possible to do, I managed it even against UBER MEGA CHARGY Killjoy. With the bury delivery system - Killjoy's first action will more than likely be a charge - this removes one of his limitations of speed. He is going to be unburied within charge range. As always, having high cards is luck dependent. Killjoy is likely to kill his first charge target freeing him up to charge again. Not meaning to sound negative or such, but when two models seem to be able to dismantle a good proportion of a crew by themselves, it seems a bit of the "OMG!" factor creeping in. Both being Wave 1 models make me think two things: 1) this combo must have been playtested and others must have managed with the combo with crews... so what did they do that I don't. 2) was this combo really tested.... is it a case of "gamer gone power-crazy" syndrome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 This combo was tested, as variants of this combo exist on other masters as well. Ramos can do something similar with the rail golem, and Molly can pull similar killjoy shennanigans. A few weeks before the beta ended Justin even specifically asked for the Molly combo to be tested. No argument that it can be rough to face. But like everything there are ways around it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 With the bury delivery system - Killjoy's first action will more than likely be a charge - this removes one of his limitations of speed. He is going to be unburied within charge range. Yep but he can't do it 3 times, which makes a huge difference.. Yes you are probably going to lose an expensive model from his initial charge. But that is not unexpected from a 12 model + a Master Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Static Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Sorry for potentially thread stealing but how does Molly's combo work as I don't have killjoys card? Edit: if someone wants to PM me rather than clog up the thread that would be appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Two ways. The setup is that you potentially want to take the horror version of her upgrade, although you only need that if you want to do the second variant. Molly needs to have one of her limiteds though to make this as effective as possible. Killjoy starts buried, and Molly hires Madam Sybelle. Madam Sybelle moves up and uses call belle on Molly, pulling her approximately 11" up the board. Molly goes then here come the variants. 1) Molly uses either of her limited upgrades and summons the necrotic machine up to 10" away from herself, but out of 3" of an enemy. Machine instantly dies, letting killjoy pop out. This movement trick, plus his charge and ml range essentially threatens almost all the board. 2) Molly does the same thing but keeps the eventual popped out killjoy within 6" of herself. Molly uses her Horror limited upgrade to let killjoy take a 1 ap action (Note, you cannot use this to charge. The way killjoy's talent works, it only works at the beginning of his activation), then Molly uses her accomplice talent to let killjoy go immediately. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graeme27uk Posted March 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 This combo was tested, as variants of this combo exist on other masters as well. Ramos can do something similar with the rail golem, and Molly can pull similar killjoy shennanigans. A few weeks before the beta ended Justin even specifically asked for the Molly combo to be tested. No argument that it can be rough to face. But like everything there are ways around it. What are the best ways to circumvent this sort of attack then? Against things that can summon or recoup losses at least there is the potential to replace the damage. Against a crew that has no such ability this one move could win the game alone. Whilst it is an investment of a master and 12ss model to do so, the damage it causes is greater. If it takes out a big gribbly then that's going to leave a large hole in a crew and then it's just going to get worse from then on in as the big gribbly won't be replaced. And so the "nuclear bomb" effect will just keep on going without a counter. Also, imagine that was your first experience of Malifaux... would it be a good experience? I can see why others would "rage quit". Not knocking it, as I'd do the same if I was Tara or such, its a valid tactic and way to work. Even though it quite a large investment, it does seem to have more effect than its input. I know its been said lots that Malifaux is more than "kill the other side" but this tactic would work regardless of strategy or scheme as wiping out the enemy means they cannot complete their schemes/strategies anyway. If this was Reckoning then it would be more devastating! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 There is quite a few good counters, They have all their hitting power tied up in one model. so hit it with Slow, Obey it to run away from your crew. If it doesn't have a viable charge it has to charge it's own crew, which can easily put it out of position. Know it's coming so you can counter charge it, It's not stupidly hard to kill if you focus him. Set up Ashigaru so if he does charge he takes 8 damage. Paralyse him etc. Before your game I faced this very crew and I just stopped him doing anything worthwhile while keeping my eyes on the objective. I even forced the opponent to run in Tara to try and save him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 The other thing to note as a Nicodem player, you know where he is coming from, so set up a screen of weak dogs or Necropunks to stop him charging important things. Which you can then use to summon up other stuff to deal with him. Like Hanged, stop him healing or Crooked Men, paralyse him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 I ran into a viks list playing a killjoy bomb, I countered it by bringing a nurse and just kept killjoy paralyzed for the majority of the game before Hans shot her to death, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HtUnliving Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Also, imagine that was your first experience of Malifaux... would it be a good experience? I can see why others would "rage quit". Offtopic a little: my second independent match in Malifaux ever was against Pandora 1E, before any erratas. And well, since then nothing feels difficult. Ontopic: yeah, in every game there are stuff that are difficult to deal with. But doesn't eg. spreading your forces help vs. Killjoy (assuming you have nothing else to counter with, eg. Hans, cheap screen, negalflips vs. attacking, Lilith etc) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malharath Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 A little bit more difficult, but you can just remove the condition off Tara that lets her re-activate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiralngCadavr Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 Malharath, the problem is (at least in my experience), when Tara is going in with Killjoy on her reactivation, it's usually her coming in from a decently secure position early on, and matters way less in later turns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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