Once Per Activation

[Fireuser]

If I have a model with a once per activation ability, that I use on that models activation, can another model use obey during their activation and use the ability?

I know that they cannot use the ability a second time as per the FAQ, but it was not clear to me if this scenario could still happen.

Thanks

[The Godlyness]

Weird cause once per turn is that thing that can be done once per turn. and once it is used it CAN NOT be obeyed.

As once per activation CAN BE mm reading skills.

also What model has a once per activation. Abilty

[The Godlyness]

Weird cause once per turn is that thing that can be done once per turn. and once it is used it CAN NOT be obeyed.

As once per activation CAN BE mm reading skills.

also What model has a once per activation. Abilty

[Fireuser]

Enslaved Nephalim has one, Rogue Necromancy has one. I am sure there are more.

[Fireuser]

Enslaved Nephalim has one, Rogue Necromancy has one. I am sure there are more.

[Ausplosions]

Weird cause once per turn is that thing that can be done once per turn. and once it is used it CAN NOT be obeyed.

As once per activation CAN BE mm reading skills.

also What model has a once per activation. Abilty

No one is saying otherwise.

Once per Turn is once per Turn.

Once per Activation is once PER ACTIVATION.

If a model somehow magically got 7 Activations in a turn, then that is how many time they could use it. A model Obeying the spell, could use it in each of its own Activations in which it obeys that model.

When your doctor gives you medication, and it says "take one per meal" do you just have one at breakfast?

[Ausplosions]

Weird cause once per turn is that thing that can be done once per turn. and once it is used it CAN NOT be obeyed.

As once per activation CAN BE mm reading skills.

also What model has a once per activation. Abilty

No one is saying otherwise.

Once per Turn is once per Turn.

Once per Activation is once PER ACTIVATION.

If a model somehow magically got 7 Activations in a turn, then that is how many time they could use it. A model Obeying the spell, could use it in each of its own Activations in which it obeys that model.

When your doctor gives you medication, and it says "take one per meal" do you just have one at breakfast?

[Fireuser]

I think this discussion is getting a little more heated than is needed.

[Fireuser]

I think this discussion is getting a little more heated than is needed.

[Mako]

Ok, I'll just state for the record that my considered opinion is:

Once per activation: can be used once in any given activation (so once by this model, once by an obeying model, once by another obeying model, once if this model reactivates, but not twice in a single activation by any of them)

Once per turn: this model can use it once in a turn. Other models can use their versions of it, but it is once per turn per model. Obey doesn't work if it's been used.

And any further tension in this thread will result in me debating whether to lock it or not. Play nice and all will be well.

[Mako]

Ok, I'll just state for the record that my considered opinion is:

Once per activation: can be used once in any given activation (so once by this model, once by an obeying model, once by another obeying model, once if this model reactivates, but not twice in a single activation by any of them)

Once per turn: this model can use it once in a turn. Other models can use their versions of it, but it is once per turn per model. Obey doesn't work if it's been used.

And any further tension in this thread will result in me debating whether to lock it or not. Play nice and all will be well.

[Ausplosions]

Sorry.

I forgot to post smilies.

:-)

[Ausplosions]

Sorry.

I forgot to post smilies.

:-)

[The Godlyness]

it activated once. and used it. it activates again and uses it. the model has now activated 2 times and used the ability two times during that models activation. (1st activation and second) its not a Completely different model its the same one just getting 2 activations and since it a once per activation and the model already activated, what gives it the abilty to use it again?.

where is my rulebook when i need it.

[The Godlyness]

it activated once. and used it. it activates again and uses it. the model has now activated 2 times and used the ability two times during that models activation. (1st activation and second) its not a Completely different model its the same one just getting 2 activations and since it a once per activation and the model already activated, what gives it the abilty to use it again?.

where is my rulebook when i need it.

[Ausplosions]

But each Activation is a separate Activation.

So you can use it once per each Activation.

This is quite clear, but play it how you want.

[Ausplosions]

But each Activation is a separate Activation.

So you can use it once per each Activation.

This is quite clear, but play it how you want.

[sssk]

I suspect this is coming down to a difference in who's "activation" you're talking about.

To summarise:

model A has an OPA (once per activation) ability.

Godlyness' argument: that ability can be used once per model A activation (not once per generic model activation, but once per model A activation). So if model A activates once, and uses the ability, the one use per activation has been used, and thus is not available for anyone else to use. If model A activates and doesn't use the ability, then the 1 use per activation has not been used, and is available to be used via obey or whatever.

ausplosions' argument: the ability can be used once per generic model activation. So model A can use the OPA ability during its activation. Model B (with obey) can then activate (a new activation), and once in model B's activation it can obey model A to use the OPA ability, because the OPA ability has not yet been used in model B's activation.

Have I understood both sides properly?

[sssk]

I suspect this is coming down to a difference in who's "activation" you're talking about.

To summarise:

model A has an OPA (once per activation) ability.

Godlyness' argument: that ability can be used once per model A activation (not once per generic model activation, but once per model A activation). So if model A activates once, and uses the ability, the one use per activation has been used, and thus is not available for anyone else to use. If model A activates and doesn't use the ability, then the 1 use per activation has not been used, and is available to be used via obey or whatever.

ausplosions' argument: the ability can be used once per generic model activation. So model A can use the OPA ability during its activation. Model B (with obey) can then activate (a new activation), and once in model B's activation it can obey model A to use the OPA ability, because the OPA ability has not yet been used in model B's activation.

Have I understood both sides properly?

[Carasz]

it activated once. and used it. it activates again and uses it. the model has now activated 2 times and used the ability two times during that models activation.

Emphasis mine.

I think this is where the problem lies. Two activations, even during the same turn, are two completely different activations. it's plural. Not one activation.

Each new activation, regardless if it's the same turn or not, is its own activation. As soon as one activation ends, the limit of "once per activation" ends. It does not carry on until the end of turn. Every new activation refreshes the "once per activation".

Reactivate is a new activation, not a continuation of the last activation.

Edit:

Sssk, I think there's an addendum to what you said. If I understood correctly, godlyness is saying that only model A may not use the OPA during a later activation if used already, but other models may obey even though model A used it. According to him, their activations are separate but the reactivate doesn't give a separate activation.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Carasz

[Carasz]

it activated once. and used it. it activates again and uses it. the model has now activated 2 times and used the ability two times during that models activation.

Emphasis mine.

I think this is where the problem lies. Two activations, even during the same turn, are two completely different activations. it's plural. Not one activation.

Each new activation, regardless if it's the same turn or not, is its own activation. As soon as one activation ends, the limit of "once per activation" ends. It does not carry on until the end of turn. Every new activation refreshes the "once per activation".

Reactivate is a new activation, not a continuation of the last activation.

Edit:

Sssk, I think there's an addendum to what you said. If I understood correctly, godlyness is saying that only model A may not use the OPA during a later activation if used already, but other models may obey even though model A used it. According to him, their activations are separate but the reactivate doesn't give a separate activation.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Carasz

[Fetid Strumpet]

I don't have my rulebook on me, but it seems the essence of this come down to what the mechanical definition of the word "activation" means.

Does an activation only occur when a model is nominated to go and then generates its Pool of AP?

Or does anytime a model can spend AP, even out of sequence and under other players control, constitute "activation"?

How does this also interact with conditions that occur during an activation? Can a paralyzed model be obeyed, thus counting as activating, generate no AP (due to Paralyzed) but then get to remove the condition?

What about Unmade? It causes dmg to a model at the end of their activation. If Obeying a model counts as activating it, could a model theoretically be pinged with obey to force them to take multiple instances of Unmade dmg?

Does their need to be, and is there already, a distinction between " a model's" or "their" activation, and a generic activation?

All of these are things I just thought of in relation to this topic, as I said I don't have my rulebook on me so some of these might be ridiculously simple to answer in consulting it, but they aren't aspects that are firm to recall just off the top of my head if they are in the book.

[Fetid Strumpet]

I don't have my rulebook on me, but it seems the essence of this come down to what the mechanical definition of the word "activation" means.

Does an activation only occur when a model is nominated to go and then generates its Pool of AP?

Or does anytime a model can spend AP, even out of sequence and under other players control, constitute "activation"?

How does this also interact with conditions that occur during an activation? Can a paralyzed model be obeyed, thus counting as activating, generate no AP (due to Paralyzed) but then get to remove the condition?

What about Unmade? It causes dmg to a model at the end of their activation. If Obeying a model counts as activating it, could a model theoretically be pinged with obey to force them to take multiple instances of Unmade dmg?

Does their need to be, and is there already, a distinction between " a model's" or "their" activation, and a generic activation?

All of these are things I just thought of in relation to this topic, as I said I don't have my rulebook on me so some of these might be ridiculously simple to answer in consulting it, but they aren't aspects that are firm to recall just off the top of my head if they are in the book.

[The Godlyness]

A model being being obeyed is not Activating. Everyone who plays this game can understand that.

SSk almost has it right but it can be obeyed what he is describing is once a turn. which is clearly defined in the FAQ.

i am saying that the model has activated has been though its cleanup step saying hey i went. then gaining reactivate and saying oh hey i just tried using this cool ability but i already did that. now if some OTHER model wants to tell me what to do that is fine but i wont do it myself.

and @ausplosins It has NEVER come up in a game of mine EVER but if it did clarification would be nice. just like once per turn is CLARIFIED.

But dont get me wrong i am just playing devils advocate in this corner case cause i dont really if ever see this happening

I guess the easiest way for me to describe it is Once per turn but can be obeyed.

Toodles

Edited January 17, 2014 by The Godlyness

[The Godlyness]

A model being being obeyed is not Activating. Everyone who plays this game can understand that.

SSk almost has it right but it can be obeyed what he is describing is once a turn. which is clearly defined in the FAQ.

i am saying that the model has activated has been though its cleanup step saying hey i went. then gaining reactivate and saying oh hey i just tried using this cool ability but i already did that. now if some OTHER model wants to tell me what to do that is fine but i wont do it myself.

and @ausplosins It has NEVER come up in a game of mine EVER but if it did clarification would be nice. just like once per turn is CLARIFIED.

But dont get me wrong i am just playing devils advocate in this corner case cause i dont really if ever see this happening

I guess the easiest way for me to describe it is Once per turn but can be obeyed.

Toodles

Edited January 17, 2014 by The Godlyness

[Carasz]

A model being being obeyed is not Activating. Everyone who plays this game can understand that.

SSk almost has it right but it can be obeyed what he is describing is once a turn. which is clearly defined in the FAQ.

i am saying that the model has activated has been though its cleanup step saying hey i went. then gaining reactivate and saying oh hey i just tried using this cool ability but i already did that. now if some OTHER model wants to tell me what to do that is fine but i wont do it myself.

and @ausplosins It has NEVER come up in a game of mine EVER but if it did clarification would be nice. just like once per turn is CLARIFIED.

But dont get me wrong i am just playing devils advocate in this corner case cause i dont really if ever see this happening

I guess the easiest way for me to describe it is Once per turn but can be obeyed.

Toodles

If a model can't use its "once per activation" during his next activation the same turn, why does he get to do it the next turn?

They're exactly the same thing.

The last activation ended, he started a new one. There is no step during the end phase or startup phase next turn where they refresh once per activation.

I'm sorry, but I have to question your reading comprehension. Do you know what the word "per" means?

Once per activation means once each activation. Regardless of which turn it is. You are confusing the terms "turn" and "activation" by linking them together closely.

It's even in the rulebook.

Page 53 (big book) "a model with the reactivate condition is available to be activated one additional time during this turn, as if it had not already taken its activation."

Emphasis mine.

It's in the definition of reactivate. You get a second activation, but play it just the same as if it was a first activation. Because there is no difference. They're separate entities. Nowhere does it say "once per activation carries on until the end of turn".

They even spelled it out to avoid confusion.

Also, you really think its necessary to create a rule that's almost the same as once per turn but with a loophole to allow obeying? M2E har streamlined the rules, this is the opposite.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Carasz
Forgot a quote mark